BC Political Discussion - BC Election 2017 May 9th

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Vancouverites are being pushed east by multimillionaire Chinese. The least fortunate get pushed completely out, or leave for greener pastures. The facts back this up.



You're the one pushing pro-corruption propaganda for a city you don't even live in.

I disagree with you we are all people it does not matter if we are white like me Chinese or Asian. The racial overtones you make are pathetic in nature. You should be able to live with all cultures races or religions. Least fortunate what do you mean? Someone sells there place for a couple of million dollars?

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

I would say the economic agenda of the N.D.P. with fast ferries as well as Bingo gate. The decisions and corruption in government has never been close to being equal. It was not only a international embarressment we are still paying for the problems today.

The fact the Liberals have created the best employment record on history is fact to how we could have been if we did not have the N.D.P. in the 1990s

Yes, I'm aware that the N.D.P. were wasteful (with no excuses) in some of their budget thrusts,....but I'm also aware that often times provincial governments and their budgets are really at the mercy of national and international economic forces (beyond their control).

Please peruse a recent comment made by a respected academic as to the relatively limited impact of the budget policies of local provincial leaders/political parties etc. on B.C.'s prosperity: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/reality-check-who-s-driving-b-c-s-economy-1.1371048

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

Ahh...an attempt as civil/rational discourse. So let me ask you this....given B.C.'s heavy dependence of the volatile primary/resource sector was its 90's economic downturn a function of falling GLOBAL commodity prices (much as is the case with Alberta's current oil driven economy) which in turn would force the B.C. government of the day to increase expensive social welfare funding/budgets in attempts to reduce unemployment/poverty etc.?

It was the bad management of government from the N.D.P. It was a complete and udder embarrassment not only for the province of B.C. but Canada as a whole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ferry_Scandal

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/central-figure-in-bingogate-dead-at-84/article702942/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/new-papers-surface-in-bcs-bingogate/article22399943/

Casinogate:

In March 1999, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police executed a search warrant and searched the Clark household.[5] The media was tipped off about the raid and television news showed live, primetime coverage of the premier pacing inside his house while the search was conducted. Two weeks later the RCMP conducted a search of the Premier's Office.[6]

The subsequent investigation spawned intense coverage by the media.[7] However, subsequent coverage also exposed numerous inaccuracies in the way the story was initially portrayed, with some critics alleging a media or RCMP conspiracy to smear him for ideological reasons.[8]

Clark resigned suddenly on the night of August 21, 1999, following allegations that he had accepted favours (in the form of free renovations worth $10,000, which he had actually paid for) from Dimitrios Pilarinos in return for approving a casino application.[9] He was later formally charged with committing breach of trust, a criminal offence.[10]

Conflict of interest commissioner H.A.D. Oliver concluded in 2001 that Clark had violated conflict of interest laws in British Columbia.[7] However, Clark was acquitted of all criminal charges by the Supreme Court of British Columbia on August 29, 2002,[10] with Justice Elizabeth Bennett ruling that while Clark had unwisely left himself open to a perception of unethical behaviour, there was no solid evidence that he had actually done anything illegal.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Clark

http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2...candal-follows-bc-election-campaign.html

The only reputable N.D.P quits the party!

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri...-public-and-nasty-split/article17751648/

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

Yes, I'm aware that the N.D.P. were wasteful (with no excuses) in some of their budget thrusts,....but I'm also aware that often times provincial governments and their budgets are really at the mercy of national and international economic forces (beyond their control).

Please peruse a recent comment made by a respected academic as to the relatively limited impact of the budget policies of local provincial leaders/political parties etc. on B.C.'s prosperity: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/reality-check-who-s-driving-b-c-s-economy-1.1371048

I have just showed you examples of under control N.D.P practices in my previous post! The N.D.P. government makes practices worse even when economic forces are beyond their control!

[retro_orange]

This thread should be closed. Election is over.

[trofirhen]

For two reasons:

1) The election is over

2) The thread content has become irrelevant to the thread - in more ways than one

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

I have just showed you examples of under control N.D.P practices in my previous post! The N.D.P. government makes practices worse even when economic forces are beyond their control!

An important point of departure though is how we define "waste". You on the right might define waste in purely financial terms (from a private sector "profit"perspective)....while on the left one would tend to define "waste" as occurring when a given government engages in practices that do not effectively/sufficiently help the majority poor.

With that said, provincial governments (given the realities of the scholarly article link I've furnished) seem to have more relevance in terms of poverty reduction thrusts via so called "socialist budgets" whenever capitalism fails to effectively share the fruits of prosperity equitably (rather than trying to generate/spread prosperity via "selfish" capitalist budget policies which tend to emphasize INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ECONOMIC SUCCESS over the realities of SYSTEMIC DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE POOR--as evidenced by data in every capitalist country that points to the tendency for GROWING income inequality/attendant GROWING debt which ultimately serve to collapse capitalism into recessions/depressions etc.)!

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

I have just showed you examples of under control N.D.P practices in my previous post! The N.D.P. government makes practices worse even when economic forces are beyond their control!

...so here's an example of Liberal Party waste (which yielded fiscal savings to her budget). The Clark administration systematically hurt the province's poor when she ignored legal mandates to properly fund public services like public education (and health care).

Thus, in one instance as our provincial LEADER she arrogantly baited teachers to strike so as to close public schools for the working poor (which her wealthy child doesn't attend) in order to cut budget costs and effect budget savings on the back of the poor tax payer (whom she ironically argued were the beneficiary of "prudent government budgetary policy". Result: significantly reduced summer educational opportunities for the poor student-a reality that ultimately hurts the province's human capital development, both socially and economically.

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

An important point of departure though is how we define "waste". You on the right might define waste in purely financial terms (from a private sector "profit"perspective)....while on the left one would tend to define "waste" as occurring when a given government engages in practices that do not effectively/sufficiently help the majority poor.

With that said, provincial governments (given the realities of the scholarly article link I've furnished) seem to have more relevance in terms of poverty reduction thrusts via so called "socialist budgets" whenever capitalism fails to effectively share the fruits of prosperity equitably (rather than trying to generate/spread prosperity via "selfish" capitalist budget policies which tend to emphasize INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ECONOMIC SUCCESS over the realities of SYSTEMIC DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE POOR--as evidenced by data in every capitalist country that points to the tendency for GROWING income inequality/attendant GROWING debt which ultimately serve to collapse capitalism into recessions/depressions etc.)!

So my definition of waste is what has been previously stated with regards to my examples with the N.D.P. government. When it comes to capitalism I can use examples like Jimmy Patterson a philanthropist whom donates millions of dollars to help those less fortunate.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri...-new-vancouver-hospital/article34465951/

Wait there is more!

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local-news/childrens-hospital-gets-historic-gift

The reality is that large corporations as well as individuals like Jimmy Patterson have a huge impact on the less fortunate in society.

The reality is we as individuals are responsible for society. We in essence are the government. I feel personally responsible for the improvement of society as a capitalist. I use my money to help those less fortunate than myself. I do better than that though as I use my time to support those less fortunate than me.

If you look at a provincial government like Ontario that is selling not just its children's future but its grand children's as well.

To me this is a crime and embarrassment! I wish to improve the lives of not only my children but my grand children. When you are a child your god is your parents when you are a parent your god is your child. It is a simple duality that makes sense in a capitalist society.

Your rant

INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ECONOMIC SUCCESS over the realities of SYSTEMIC DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE POOR

Is only true in a socialist society! I have a great book for you to read it is called " animal farm" by George Orwell a democratic socialist.

I believe the poor are better served in a capitalist society that offers welfare than a wasteful N.D.P. society that offers a worse life to our grand children!

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

...so here's an example of Liberal Party waste (which yielded fiscal savings to her budget). The Clark administration systematically hurt the province's poor when she ignored legal mandates to properly fund public services like public education (and health care).

Thus, in one instance as our provincial LEADER she arrogantly baited teachers to strike so as to close public schools for the working poor (which her wealthy child doesn't attend) in order to cut budget costs and effect budget savings on the back of the poor tax payer (whom she ironically argued were the beneficiary of "prudent government budgetary policy". Result: significantly reduced summer educational opportunities for the poor student-a reality that ultimately hurts the province's human capital development, both socially and economically.

What I think is interesting is the fact that those that leave school will have a job with the Clark government. Also she has already agreed to all the N.D.P. ideas yet they were voted down by the N.D.P. Also please baited teachers to strike? For the love of God that is what the B.C. Teachers Federation does! When has the Teachers Federation not gone on strike? Liberal or N.D.P government.

An out of control union that does not meet the needs of the children should be the last institution you should be defending! Again really a strong government to help the long term goals of our children is what we need not a communist government!

[Caliplanner1]

[QUOTE=sunsetmountainland;7852544]So my definition of waste is what has been previously stated with regards to my examples with the N.D.P. government. When it comes to capitalism I can use examples like Jimmy Patterson a philanthropist whom donates millions of dollars to help those less fortunate.

The reality is that large corporations as well as individuals like Jimmy Patterson have a huge impact on the less fortunate in society.

The reality is we as individuals are responsible for society. We in essence are the government. I feel personally responsible for the improvement of society as a capitalist. I use my money to help those less fortunate than myself. I do better than that though as I use my time to support those less fortunate than me.

If you look at a provincial government like Ontario that is selling not just its children's future but its grand children's as well. /QUOTE]



Philanthropy by the wealthy few ignores the fact that the rich actually acquire their wealth (given the organic/interconnected/interdependent nature of the modern industrial economy/society) on the backs of the majority poor (whether via the exploitation of labor or the majority laborer/consumer who is over-priced (when buying goods/services) relative to the respective wage given by their employers for said labor.

Thus, patronizing philanthropic help for the poor is generally UNSUSTAINABLE over the long run and is never really sufficient to eliminate chronic/systemic poverty which is ultimately the product of capitalism's penchant for precipitating GROWING income inequality and GROWING debt.

In fact let's cut all this circular time wasting/meandering arguments by answer just one question: is GROWING income inequality and its attendant GROWING debt the major inherent Achilles Heel of capitalism (e.g. via increasing quests for financial efficiency) thus requiring increasing amounts of systemic government equity payments in the form social welfare programs--as seen via the Great Depression era's various New Deal programs)?

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

What I think is interesting is the fact that those that leave school will have a job with the Clark government. Also she has already agreed to all the N.D.P. ideas yet they were voted down by the N.D.P. Also please baited teachers to strike? For the love of God that is what the B.C. Teachers Federation does! When has the Teachers Federation not gone on strike? Liberal or N.D.P government.

An out of control union that does not meet the needs of the children should be the last institution you should be defending! Again really a strong government to help the long term goals of our children is what we need not a communist government!

...so Clark is now agreeing to the "socialist programs" of the left wing N.D.P.?? How politically expedient.

As per your assertion about Ontario's "wasteful/expensive social welfare" programs....the real question is why aren't the wealthy private sector corporations voluntarily pitching in to cover the many public sector needs in health care/public education/public mass transportation etc. that desperately require financing?? The short answer???.....well government services are by nature not short-term profitable (in money terms) if ever, given the chronic realities of GROWING INCOME INEQUALITY and attendant GROWING DEBT.....thus government operations being subject to expensive EQUITY concerns.

Now you see the ONGOING conflict/conundrum of using right wing capitalist market values to try to run what is essentially socialist paradigms in government.

Just look at the headache that the myopic/pro business-minded Republicans are having with designing affordable health care service delivery in a capitalist U.S. market place that is both unable/unwilling to deal with the realities of GROWING INCOME INEQUALITY/DEBT/FALLING PROFITS etc. as an IRONIC function/by-product of capitalism's quest for heightened financial efficiency (via labor reductions/automation, wage cuts/global outsourcing etc.).

Over a 100 years ago Marx warned of the (deflationary) dilemma that we now face in our globalized capitalist economy,....a point that even the ancient Athenian philosopher, Aristotle, discussed when he wisely saw the conundrum of the nexus between advancing technologies and rising unemployment/debt some 3000 (THREE THOUSAND or so) years ago!

[s211]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Look. You are from California. You now show up in this thread outta the blue. You have no understanding of BC politics. And you recite ideological left-wing rhetoric irrelevant to this thread. And then ya quote Marx and said ideology up-thread.

You are nothing more than a troll attempting to pollute this thread. Why don't you just f@#k-off? Honestly, I have zero-tolerance for internet garbage akin to yourself. You need to be flushed down the internet toilet.

PS. Go crawl back under the rock where you came from.

Just add him to your ignore list. I did a long time ago and my blood pressure is a lot lower.

[Caliplanner1]

Another ticking/looming (often overlooked) time bomb to hurt governments rooted in capitalism's conflicting realities is our growing population of retired elderly/infirmed people (LIVING ON FIX INCOMES WITH DIMINISHING PURCHASING POWER) which add to the dilemma of GROWING income inequality and GROWING debt towards harming economic sustainability within the private sector!

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by s211

Just add him to your ignore list. I did a long time ago and my blood pressure is a lot lower.

Thanks for the advice!...by the way...does your blood pressure rise, do you get headaches when confronted with hard to swallow/digest truths and reality????

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

I disagree with you we are all people it does not matter if we are white like me Chinese or Asian. The racial overtones you make are pathetic in nature. You should be able to live with all cultures races or religions. Least fortunate what do you mean? Someone sells there place for a couple of million dollars?

It's not about race, it's about international forces that could be regulated by a government that cares about its people. But good job going for the cliche race card attack that everyone like you pulls out when they've run out of ways to defend their interest in our corrupt real estate scheme.

And no by less fortunate I mean the thousands of people (and growing rapidly) that didn't have a stake in the original bubble, can't get help from their parents, and now cannot even buy a condo in Metro Vancouver.

[waves]

I'll third trofirhen and retro_orange.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

I disagree with you we are all people it does not matter if we are white like me Chinese or Asian. The racial overtones you make are pathetic in nature. You should be able to live with all cultures races or religions. Least fortunate what do you mean? Someone sells there place for a couple of million dollars?

You're missing the point. The issue isn't that they're "Chinese", the issue is they are offshore buyers or deriving their money from offshore sources and distorting the market. If this was London I'd be calling out the gov't for allowing Russian and Middle Eastern buyers. (BTW, ever notice that the money in these cases always seem to flow from despotic authoritarian regimes where kleptocracy is rampant?)

You cannot expect Canadian citizens, paying Canadian levels of taxation, working for firms that have to abide by Canadian environmental and labour laws, to compete for scarce housing with offshore buyers who are subject to none of those things.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

This thread should be closed. Election is over.

The only matter that should be changed in thread title is May 9th should be struck and changed to October (?).

[waves]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

The only matter that should be changed in thread title is May 9th should be struck and changed to October (?).

That is pure speculation. Until actually dissolution and a date has been struck for a new election this forum should most definitely not take on a new date. Suggesting does fit with your political bias in your commentary though, so I am not surprised that you would make such a suggestion...

This is besides the point that a new election should warrant a new thread rather than continuing this one.