Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

In the case of Pimisi, other than the few of us who follow the Confederation Line project religiously, the name says nothing to the majority of citizens in the NCR. Ironically, it will be even more confusing for tourists, for whom Parliament/Parlement Station was named.

Tourists who use public transit, can read the Roman alphabet, and have half-way ok skills at interpreting maps or diagrams, shouldn't have a problem.

It might not mean something to locals. The missing word, though, is "yet": who knew what or where "New Edinburgh" was in the 1830s?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Tourists who use public transit, can read the Roman alphabet, and have half-way ok skills at interpreting maps or diagrams, shouldn't have a problem.

It might not mean something to locals. The missing word, though, is "yet": who knew what or where "New Edinburgh" was in the 1830s?

When tourists ask locals where the War Museum is and we tell them Lebreton Flats, I am sure that will confuse the issue if they take the Confederation Line to get there. It is only the station name that has changed. I (and 99% of Ottawans) will still call the area Lebreton Flats. That is the name the area has had for 150 years or more. It isn't changing.

[1overcosc]

The Sens redevelopment plan for Lebreton proposes to create several distinct neighbourhoods/districts within Lebreton, each with its own name and branding.. they've proposed to call the area around Pimisi station, "Pimisi" district, so the name will end up making sense.

[swimmer_spe]

On the Mattawa River, a tributary of the Ottawa River, there is a lake called Pimisi Lake.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

When tourists ask locals where the War Museum is and we tell them Lebreton Flats, I am sure that will confuse the issue if they take the Confederation Line to get there. It is only the station name that has changed. I (and 99% of Ottawans) will still call the area Lebreton Flats. That is the name the area has had for 150 years or more. It isn't changing.

"Escoose me, meestair? Ow do ai geet to zee Wore Moozium? I can do wiss mai Preesto Cardt?"

"See that station entrance? Go in there, take the next train WESTBOUND to TUNNEY'S PASTURE. You can walk to the Museum from PIMISI Station or Bayview... it's not far either way."

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

When tourists ask locals where the War Museum is and we tell them Lebreton Flats, I am sure that will confuse the issue if they take the Confederation Line to get there.

It is no more confusing than any other name (unless they call the station "War Museum").

I (and 99% of Ottawans) will still call the area Lebreton Flats. That is the name the area has had for 150 years or more. It isn't changing.

Names change and people adapt. Is it Peking or Beijing? Is it Frobisher Bay or Iqaluit? Is it the Queen Charlotte Islands or Haida Gwaii? It may take time but it will happen.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

On the Mattawa River, a tributary of the Ottawa River, there is a lake called Pimisi Lake.

So? There are name duplication all over the place, some much more confusing. Victoria is on Vancouver Island, Vancouver is on the main land, and Victoria island is in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago straddling the boundary between Nunavut and the Northwest Territories. Some obscure lake that only the locals know about isn't going to be an issue.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

"Escoose me, meestair? Ow do ai geet to zee Wore Moozium? I can do wiss mai Preesto Cardt?"

"See that station entrance? Go in there, take the next train WESTBOUND to TUNNEY'S PASTURE. You can walk to the Museum from PIMISI Station or Bayview... it's not far either way."

Exactly. Not much different than in Montreal:

"Excuse me, how do I get to Olympic Park?"

"Take the green line to either Pie-IX or Viau... it's not far either way."

The reality is attractions will name the nearest station(s) when describing how to get there and any decent tourist map will show both the major attractions and the LRT stations with their names. Google Maps will also tell people which station to get off at so the actual name doesn't really matter all that much as long as it isn't similar to the name of another station (that would be a significant issue).

[eltodesukane]

And Montreal has a station named: "Longueuil–Universite-de-Sherbrooke"
How long is that? And how inappropriate, considering most of Universite de Sherbrooke is actually in Sherbrooke.

[acottawa]

I think the challenge is that nothing else is named Pimisi. If the NCC wants to rename the Lebreton Flats the Pimisi District or the city wants to rename Booth Street to Pimisi Street, or if they want to name the canal that runs beside the tracks the Pimisi canal then that would make more sense.

If in fact there is no particular advantage for having geographically significant names then why name the other 12 stations (and the vast majority of the world's transit stations) based on geographic features?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think the challenge is that nothing else is named Pimisi.

Nothing else (nearby) is named Dominion, either. I still have no idea where or what a "Nepean Woods" is, but the people who have reason to go to "Nepean Woods", whatever the hell "Nepean Woods" is, they do.

If in fact there is no particular advantage for having geographically significant names then why name the other 12 stations (and the vast majority of the world's transit stations) based on geographic features?

Because that's a good practice as a general rule. Doesn't have to be a 100% rule, though.

Personally, I'd have preferred a different name than Pimisi, but these objections to it don't really wash.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Nothing else (nearby) is named Dominion, either.

I don't mind the name Pimisi but this is not true- Dominion is right beside Dominion Ave.

[lrt's friend]

The funny thing about naming is city policy on the subject.

A couple of years ago I objected to the name 'Riverview' being used for the Park n'Ride lot in Riverside South. I did this because the historic name for that location was 'Rideau View' (the area had a school and post office by that name) and 'Riverview' was the long standing name of the area just to the southeast of Hurdman Station.

The response I got back suggested that another public location (a park if my memory serves me correctly) had the 'Rideau View' name and that duplicates would cause confusion.

So, don't count on anything else being named Pimisi beyond the station itself. When you consider that all recent proposals and other developments around the station have all referred to Lebreton which is also very ingrained in the public psyche, even informal renaming will be difficult to achieve.

I think we should also be concerned about the erasure of historic names in our city, whether it is 'Lebreton Flats' or 'Booth Street'. Neither of these names are insignificant.

I also get concerned about renaming important locations, which reminds me of travelling to Montreal last year and finding that University Avenue had been changed to Robert Bourassa Blvd. Amidst all the construction in downtown Montreal and poor signage, I was going in circles trying to find where I was going. Considering that University Avenue is one of the most important thoroughfares in downtown Montreal, some sort of double signage should have been used to help visitors unfamiliar with the street renaming.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The funny thing about naming is city policy on the subject.

A couple of years ago I objected to the name 'Riverview' being used for the Park n'Ride lot in Riverside South. I did this because the historic name for that location was 'Rideau View' (the area had a school and post office by that name) and 'Riverview' was the long standing name of the area just to the southeast of Hurdman Station.

The response I got back suggested that another public location (a park if my memory serves me correctly) had the 'Rideau View' name and that duplicates would cause confusion.

I'm guessing they are referring to Rideau View Golf Club, which is over 8 km away as the crow flys (10 km driving) and on the opposite side of the river (see Google Maps) so they aren't in the same neighbourhood. Are the names old neighbourhoods "River View" or "Riverview" still in common use to cause similar confusion, or is it just a point of historical accuracy?

So, don't count on anything else being named Pimisi beyond the station itself. When you consider that all recent proposals and other developments around the station have all referred to Lebreton which is also very ingrained in the public psyche, even informal renaming will be difficult to achieve.

If they are in the same general vicinity as the station, I don't see how this will be a problem.

I think we should also be concerned about the erasure of historic names in our city, whether it is 'Lebreton Flats' or 'Booth Street'. Neither of these names are insignificant.

In general I agree. The exception is if we are wanting to deliberately stop honouring someone (like was done with Hector-Louis Langevin recently).

I also get concerned about renaming important locations, which reminds me of travelling to Montreal last year and finding that University Avenue had been changed to Robert Bourassa Blvd. Amidst all the construction in downtown Montreal and poor signage, I was going in circles trying to find where I was going. Considering that University Avenue is one of the most important thoroughfares in downtown Montreal, some sort of double signage should have been used to help visitors unfamiliar with the street renaming.

Is "LeBreton Flats" the name of a destination visitors currently seek out which could become a point of confusion on future visits if renamed? Booth Street maybe, but I don't see this being true with LeBreton Flats.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I'm guessing they are referring to Rideau View Golf Club, which is over 8 km away as the crow flys (10 km driving) and on the opposite side of the river

The concern was probably related to the nearby Rideau View community centre on Spratt: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Rideauv...de699cb63!8m2!3d45.2773877!4d-75.6874362

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Nothing else (nearby) is named Dominion, either. I still have no idea where or what a "Nepean Woods" is, but the people who have reason to go to "Nepean Woods", whatever the hell "Nepean Woods" is, they do.



Because that's a good practice as a general rule. Doesn't have to be a 100% rule, though.

Personally, I'd have preferred a different name than Pimisi, but these objections to it don't really wash.

Nepean Woods is next to a wooded area, in Nepean. (Not familiar with the area, but it wouldn't surprise me if the wooded area is known as Nepean Woods).

As bradnixon mentioned, Dominion Station is on Dominion Ave.

At present 100% of OC Transpo stations have some sort of a geographic reference (street, landmark, neighbourhood, geographic feature, etc, although as lrtfriend points out, the river stations are confusing geographic references). Montreal and Toronto also have 100% geographic naming of some sort.

If the name Pimisi is important to the First Nations Community then that's fine, but they should start calling other things Pimisi. Most obvious would be the Flats section of Booth street (which would also differentiate the residential section of Booth South of Scott).

[J.OT13]

City releases finalist bidders for next stage of light rail

DAVID REEVELY

FIRST POSTED: THURSDAY, JUNE 22, 2017 06:21 PM EDT | UPDATED: THURSDAY, JUNE 22, 2017 06:25 PM EDT

The team building Ottawa’s first leg of light rail is staying out of the bidding for the extensions to follow but there are still international construction giants to choose from, city manager Steve Kanellakos told councillors Thursday evening.

The city’s rail department has pre-qualified three new consortiums to bid on its next megaproject, he wrote in a memo, and they’ll be getting the detailed bid documents within the week. As with the Rideau Transit Group consortium that won the contract for the first stage of construction, they’re corporate groups assembled specifically for the Ottawa work. They are:

• Confederation Transit Group (made up of Spanish transportation conglomerate Ferrovial, French road and rail company Colas and local construction firm Tomlinson)
• East West Connectors (made up of American construction company Kiewit and French builder and transit operator Vinci)
• Confederation Line 2 Partners (made up of American construction and engineering firm Bechtel and Canadian builders Aecon, Pomerleau and EBC)

Colas, Vinci and Aecon were all parts of unsuccessful bids for the first rail contract. Rideau Transit Group and its members agreed to stay out of the bidding for the second phase, which the city wanted because their obvious advantage would suppress competition.

This round of bidding is to extend the first electric LRT line west to Bayshore and Baseline and east to Trim Road by 2023. An extension of the current diesel train line to Bowesville, south of the Ottawa airport, is to be put up for bids separately.

In all, the next phase of rail and all its add-ons are supposed to cost $3.6 billion.

Although the plan is to pay for it all with city, provincial and federal money, it might be possible to save some by putting stations into new private-sector buildings. The city’s asking for property owners around stations planned for Cleary Avenue, Pinecrest Road and Baseline Road to speak up, and have added a new spot at 1181 Richmond Rd., just east of the bridge over the Ottawa River Parkway, to the list.

Other than that, Kanellakos’s memo said the next phase of rail is moving ahead ticketyboo, with funding deals progressing and approvals from the upper governments coming in on schedule.

[email protected]

http://www.ottawasun.com/2017/06/22/city-releases-finalist-bidders-for-next-stage-of-light-rail

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

The concern was probably related to the nearby Rideau View community centre on Spratt: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Rideauv...de699cb63!8m2!3d45.2773877!4d-75.6874362

Yes, that may have been the location that was referred to at the time.

But it does point to some peculiarities in naming policy. Leitrim is also a historic location similar to Rideau View, but it has not stopped them from having a Leitrim Road and a Leitrim Park n Ride (not located on Leitrim Road). I think that I was simply getting the run around and that is not the first time.

This is why NIMBY's arise because reasonable suggestions are usually ignored and then they escalate into much bigger issues if people start banding together and persisting in their complaints.

[Kitchissippi]

Pimisi would be really meaningful if they used the aqueduct as part of a permanent eel ladder solution to the Chaudiere Dam and rename it Pimisi Aqueduct. The long migration of the American Eel (Pimisi) to and from the Sargasso Sea is a pretty fascinating subject that could use a lot of public awareness.

[rocketphish]

Auditor General finds no issues with city’s transition plan to LRT
A report of the LRT audit was tabled Wednesday.

By: Alex Abdelwahab, Metro
Published on Thu Jun 22 2017

An audit of the city’s transition plan to LRT has found no areas of high risk or gaps.

The Auditor General’s report, which was tabled Thursday, examined where the city is prepared to successfully transition from operating a primarily bus system to a combined bus and rail network when the O-Train Confederation Line opens in 2018.

The report looked specifically at 17 key areas, assessing the city’s readiness for transition, the effectiveness of the governance structure, and whether the key elements are well understood.

Overall, the audit found that all targets were either met or adjusted with no overall impact.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/ottawa/2017...s-with-citys-transition-plan-to-lrt.html

[mykl]

You've all failed to remember that one of the 5 residential neighbourhoods in the Rendezvous Lebreton plan is called Pimisi, so there will in fact be SOMETHING to back up the name geographically.

"The RendezVous LeBreton plan is predicated on five distinct neighbourhoods, three of which are also slated to be built in the first phase. Quartier LeBreton and Pimisi will be located along Albert Street, while Aqueduct will hug the restored aqueduct in the centre of the redevelopment." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/rendezvous-lebreton-first-decade-plan-1.3562836

[Dado]

Originally Posted by acottawa

To be fair, this isn't being run like a genteel European tram going 20-30 kph down a cobblestone street. It is being used as a high speed commuter train. It will be fully fenced and fully grade separated. Except for the lack of pollution it won't be much more pleasant for neighbours than the transitway.

As I was specifically referring to the SJAM segment and integrating it into its surroundings, which could have been at grade were it not for NIMBYism and the NCC's curious obsession with ensuring that a handful of visitors arriving by car have an unspoiled view of the landfilled shoreline, there's little that would have made an at-grade LRT comparable to the Transitway buses currently plying the SJAM. With no curves for rail squeal and no need for points/switches, there wouldn't be any of the usual causes of rail noise. Noise would be negligible; residents backing onto it would notice a train going by only because it would momentarily interrupt the din from the cars on the parkway beyond.

The "need" for grade separation everywhere and always has never been rationalized, especially outside the downtown tunnel: it's just been taken as some kind of assumed given. Since LRT doesn't require grade separation as often as BRT for the same passenger capacity, it's all a little suspect. The buses have managed for 30 years with traffic lights at Dominion and Lincoln Fields; I think we could have managed a couple of pedestrian crossings between Dominion and Cleary without elaborate overpasses or tunnels. One of the consequences is that it makes our LRT builds far more pricey than they need to be, thus we get less network.

That segment, and the Richmond-Byron segment to the west, could have been designed more like the LRT systems in Calgary and Edmonton.

Something like this could have been done along the SJAM, with paths running parallel. Note the fencing, which is understated: it's clear that it's fencing, but it's not the neurotic "we can't trust pedestrians" chainlink fencing that prevails in Ottawa:



And a pedestrian crossing:


This is the sort of arrangement that would have been possible for most of the Richmond-Byron segment (other than an underpass at Woodroffe), taking the foreground street to be Byron: