The Metro Vancouver Real Estate Thread

[retro_orange]

yes!

[jlousa]

Love it how people think that the government taking money out of our pockets is someone good for us. Most of those measures will impact the average homeowner more then anyone else. Every house in Vancouver is over 1M so we're all paying more... There are better ways to address the problem but they aren't really targetting their base with these increases so guess it can't hurt them.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Love it how people think that the government taking money out of our pockets is someone good for us. Most of those measures will impact the average homeowner more then anyone else. Every house in Vancouver is over 1M so we're all paying more... There are better ways to address the problem but they aren't really targetting their base with these increases so guess it can't hurt them.

All the more reason to let prices for average homes fall back below $1 million. And why cry tears for someone owning a $3 million home, save it for people with real problems.

After seeing the Vienna-Vancouver exhibit SpongeG mentioned, its clear the housing market model in Vancouver is no longer working for ordinary Canadians. If more public housing requires more taxes, than so be it.

[jlousa]

Or we could allow the feds to raise the interest rates instead of keeping them artificially low. The government meddling helped create the problem, I'm sure the solution is more meddling.
And you are right there is no need to cry tears for the hypothetical grandma who lost her husband and lives alone in her Dunbar home, the only home she's lived in for the last 50yrs. It's worth $3M and can get her a nice condo downtown and free up her lot for more housing. Sounds like the city I want to live in.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Or we could allow the feds to raise the interest rates instead of keeping them artificially low. The government meddling helped create the problem, I'm sure the solution is more meddling.
And you are right there is no need to cry tears for the hypothetical grandma who lost her husband and lives alone in her Dunbar home, the only home she's lived in for the last 50yrs. It's worth $3M and can get her a nice condo downtown and free up her lot for more housing. Sounds like the city I want to live in.

Why do people always like to trot out seniors as somehow being more deserving of help or sympathy than young people just starting out? That widow probably paid $15k for her house which was around 3x times a yearly family income. She and/or her husband likely had a defined benefit pension. Young people today are unlikely to be so lucky.

I agree that interest rates have been kept ridiculously low for far too long. Canada is not in an economic crisis that warrants such rates. Note the BoC is not "the government", they are specifically charged to operate independently without government interference. The Trudeau Liberals tried to counteract the bank's foolish interest rate policy by tightening CMHC loan requirements. Christy & Co promptly undid that good policy by bringing in the first time buyers loan which encourages young people to overextend themselves.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Love it how people think that the government taking money out of our pockets is someone good for us. Most of those measures will impact the average homeowner more then anyone else. Every house in Vancouver is over 1M so we're all paying more... There are better ways to address the problem but they aren't really targetting their base with these increases so guess it can't hurt them.

In my case I am leaving the city / country next month, though I will be coming back regularly as I will still be working from here for the time being. My last deed was casting a vote for the NDP. I don't care if the NDP and Greens burn the province down so long as they chase out speculators and pop the bubble. Maybe one day I will come back to the province for good if it makes financial sense. (not to the city though as the infrastructure is too poor and getting worse and the demographic changes are not really attractive to me..the plain truth).

Also I 100% agree with Whatsnext that the government needs to seriously get involved in housing in a big big way. The free market has failed and citizens are starting to suffer. Its time to step in and that means collecting taxes and doing some re distributions to get massive amount of public housing built. If the NDP can get 100k units built in 10 years of public housing then that's a good start, though it should really be double that or more at this point.

[Pinion]

lol @ the idea of ever raising interest rates again. Vancouver and Toronto will implode and take the rest of the country with them.

Originally Posted by cornholio

In my case I am leaving the city / country next month, though I will be coming back regularly as I will still be working from here for the time being. My last deed was casting a vote for the NDP. I don't care if the NDP and Greens burn the province down so long as they chase out speculators and pop the bubble. Maybe one day I will come back to the province for good if it makes financial sense. (not to the city though as the infrastructure is too poor and getting worse and the demographic changes are not really attractive to me..the plain truth).

Lucky you. My wife was offered a great job by her notary when we were trying to leave for New Zealand and got cold feet, but things changed and now she's hating it so we're talking about leaving again. I hope we get out soon while the getting is good - the Liberals losing power is good but the NDP won't do enough to really change anything.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by cornholio

In my case I am leaving the city / country next month, though I will be coming back regularly as I will still be working from here for the time being. My last deed was casting a vote for the NDP. I don't care if the NDP and Greens burn the province down so long as they chase out speculators and pop the bubble. Maybe one day I will come back to the province for good if it makes financial sense. (not to the city though as the infrastructure is too poor and getting worse and the demographic changes are not really attractive to me..the plain truth).

Also I 100% agree with Whatsnext that the government needs to seriously get involved in housing in a big big way. The free market has failed and citizens are starting to suffer. Its time to step in and that means collecting taxes and doing some re distributions to get massive amount of public housing built. If the NDP can get 100k units built in 10 years of public housing then that's a good start, though it should really be double that or more at this point.

Hmmm, burn the city down before you leave. Nice going.

Originally Posted by Pinion

lol @ the idea of ever raising interest rates again. Vancouver and Toronto will implode and take the rest of the country with them.



Lucky you. My wife was offered a great job by her notary when we were trying to leave for New Zealand and got cold feet, but things changed and now she's hating it so we're talking about leaving again. I hope we get out soon while the getting is good - the Liberals losing power is good but the NDP won't do enough to really change anything.

You will be in the stat of even more young people leaving an already aging North Vancouver.

[jlousa]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Why do people always like to trot out seniors as somehow being more deserving of help or sympathy than young people just starting out? That widow probably paid $15k for her house which was around 3x times a yearly family income. She and/or her husband likely had a defined benefit pension. Young people today are unlikely to be so lucky.

I agree that interest rates have been kept ridiculously low for far too long. Canada is not in an economic crisis that warrants such rates. Note the BoC is not "the government", they are specifically charged to operate independently without government interference. The Trudeau Liberals tried to counteract the bank's foolish interest rate policy by tightening CMHC loan requirements. Christy & Co promptly undid that good policy by bringing in the first time buyers loan which encourages young people to overextend themselves.

What does it matter what she paid for her house, if she sells it she still has to pay current prices for a new one. She would be punished by higher tax rates for a problem she did not create hence why there should be sympathy. Forcing her to down size will not address what has caused the run up in prices. No one is saying young people haven't gotten a bad deal in this market but if we are going to address that then address the issues that caused the problem. Foreign ownership has played a role and there are ways to address that, but by in large the biggest issues have been low interest rates allowing local to borrow more. Legalizing basement suites and laneways have also allowed prices of sfh to explode upwards as they allow for much greater carrying costs. The ship has sailed on that one unfortunately.
And yes I am well aware of how the BOC is not the government...wonder who appoints governor.
Think we agree there is an issue and it needs addressing, we just don't agree on the method to fix it.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jlousa

What does it matter what she paid for her house, if she sells it she still has to pay current prices for a new one. She would be punished by higher tax rates for a problem she did not create hence why there should be sympathy. Forcing her to down size will not address what has caused the run up in prices. No one is saying young people haven't gotten a bad deal in this market but if we are going to address that then address the issues that caused the problem. Foreign ownership has played a role and there are ways to address that, but by in large the biggest issues have been low interest rates allowing local to borrow more. Legalizing basement suites and laneways have also allowed prices of sfh to explode upwards as they allow for much greater carrying costs. The ship has sailed on that one unfortunately.
And yes I am well aware of how the BOC is not the government...wonder who appoints governor.
Think we agree there is an issue and it needs addressing, we just don't agree on the method to fix it.

My point was the cost of her house originally was probably something like 3x family income. Just as mine was in 2000. Somewhere about ten years ago that started to go haywire. I challenge you now to find a two bedroom condo, let alone a house that trades at 3x local household income in Vancouver. Therefore the young family is far more screwed than a senior sitting on a $3 million home. That Dunbar senior can sell and still buy a house around Main Street for half the price.

[jlousa]

Why should she be taxed into selling at all though? Even in your scenario she sells her $3m sfh in dunbar and let's pretend she does find a $1.5m sfh near Main. How does that help? Her new home is away from her network of friends, it's still over the $1m mark so taxed higher under what's being proposed. She is still taking up a sfh so can't even say more units are going to be created. The only person that might benefit are her kids can take her leftover money to use as down payments. But she could've done that without selling. Just don't see why we are blanket targeting the market to correct a problem that can be addressed at the source of the cause.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Vin

You will be in the stat of even more young people leaving an already aging North Vancouver.

My part of North Van is getting younger. I still like the north shore, just not most of the rest of the city - it's getting worse with time - or the weather, or trying to leave North Van after 3pm, or the economic prospects of the region.

My wife and I were watching House Hunters (terrible show, I know) and laughed/sighed at how we've never ever seen a place that's more expensive than Vancouver, even a recent Brooklyn episode had places that were way cheaper than Whalley.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Pinion

My wife was offered a great job by her notary when we were trying to leave for New Zealand and got cold feet, but things changed and now she's hating it so we're talking about leaving again.

Sounds cool and New Zealand is an amazing country (just a bit too far and a bit too small for my taste). I hope your plans materialize, although you should know that you two will be in New Zealanders' eyes foreign immigrants moving in to take their jobs and increase their housing prices. It's the same story everywhere.

Good luck!

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Why should she be taxed into selling at all though? Even in your scenario she sells her $3m sfh in dunbar and let's pretend she does find a $1.5m sfh near Main. How does that help? Her new home is away from her network of friends, it's still over the $1m mark so taxed higher under what's being proposed. She is still taking up a sfh so can't even say more units are going to be created. The only person that might benefit are her kids can take her leftover money to use as down payments. But she could've done that without selling. Just don't see why we are blanket targeting the market to correct a problem that can be addressed at the source of the cause.

Hold on but seniors can defer their taxes, they are never forced to sell. Property transfer taxes help her children, and her, by increasing tax revenue and services for public housing. I am sure you are aware there are now probably a few hundred thousand property owners in BC that don't pay taxes in Canada, in this case they will pay more and that is a net benefit for all tax paying citizens of this province. If I pay a extra $10, and the person who pays nothing here suddenly has to cough up a extra $10, now we have $20. Assuming we are the only two people living here, and the other person is not a resident, well I am now getting back $20 worth of benefits for my $10.

Originally Posted by Klazu

Sounds cool and New Zealand is an amazing country (just a bit too far and a bit too small for my taste). I hope your plans materialize, although you should know that you two will be in New Zealanders' eyes foreign immigrants moving in to take their jobs and increase their housing prices. It's the same story everywhere.

Good luck!

You can pass of as a New Zealander coming from BC in no time. Though the country has the same problems as Vancouver, lack of infrastructure, same immigration rate/type, and plenty of speculation. In my case I have EU citizenship, family in the EU, a home there, and speak the language of 10mill people at a 100% native level so no one can tell I spent over a quarter century here. So its really a no biggie for me. Prague also has affordability problems to a extent as in the center of the city appreciated over 30% in the last two years because of currency speculation and low interest rates. However in Prague I can buy a one acre property for a affordable price (in relation to fundamentals there)outside of the city and be able to commute in via train within 30min, from any direction with trains every 10-30min. Or just get on one of the many highways and drive in also in 20-30 min. That is the big difference. The infrastructure. I am in the process of starting a family, even if a bit late, and Vancouver does not work. At all. I have very good friends here all in the suburbs now struggling, I have a sibling here and another family member a few hours out of the city. But I also have a sibling who returned to Europe for the same reasons and friends there as well along with extended family. In fact I know a number of people who immigrated here within the past 10 years and returned because they said it didn't make sense to stay here once they decided to actually live and start a family. Vancouver fucked its self, that's all I have to say. And it wont get better. Only worse. Which is sad because this place 20 years ago really was one of the best places on the planet. Now its hardly livable for the middle class unless you want to financially handicap your self and commute 2 hours a day on top of it. Two hours I can commute in from 200-300 kms away in to Prague every day from the north, west, east or south by train or car. And have a quality of life no longer possible here. /rant

infrastructure:
inner city rail, about 150 km across, n>s-w>e
metro / trams
ALL night transit, red trams blue buses
buses + metro (no trams)
inter city rail
highways
This is the problem with Vancouver infrastructure and what makes it un livable when factoring in prices and why I say it will get only worse for the rest of my life. Every year worse, and at a increasing rate. You cant live in this and have a good quality of life. And then on top to financially handicap your self in inadequate developing world like housing. No thanks.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Sounds cool and New Zealand is an amazing country (just a bit too far and a bit too small for my taste). I hope your plans materialize, although you should know that you two will be in New Zealanders' eyes foreign immigrants moving in to take their jobs and increase their housing prices. It's the same story everywhere.

Good luck!

I've already lived there for four years so I should be ok. Got a large Kiwi in-law family there too.

[cornholio]

Saw this video. Really a must watch.

• Video Link

[whatnext]

Vancouver Mortgages Are Rapidly Deteriorating In Quality

Vancouver real estate may be showing signs of exhaustion. According to the Bank of Canada (BoC) and the Ministry of Finance (MoF), the quality of mortgages are showing increasing signs of quality deterioration. Over the past year this trend has accelerated, leaving more homeowners vulnerable to financial ruins in the event of a minor correction.

A Dangerous Combination For Mortgages
High-ratio mortgages combined with high loan-to-income ratios are a dangerous combination for homeowners. A high-ratio mortgage is one where less than 20% is placed as a down payment, and the owner has as little as 5% equity in the home. Chances of these mortgages going underwater (i.e. the owner ending up with negative equity in the home) are already pretty high....
https://betterdwelling.com/city/vancouver/vancouver-mortgages-are-rapidly-deteriorating-in-quality/

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by cornholio

In my case I am leaving the city / country next month, though I will be coming back regularly as I will still be working from here for the time being. My last deed was casting a vote for the NDP. I don't care if the NDP and Greens burn the province down so long as they chase out speculators and pop the bubble.

Honestly if that's how you feel please don't come back.

BC needs more people who want to make constructive changes to the province and move it forward, not "burn it down" and hope it comes out better.

I hope you find more happiness wherever it is your move takes you.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Honestly if that's how you feel please don't come back.

BC needs more people who want to make constructive changes to the province and move it forward, not "burn it down" and hope it comes out better.

I hope you find more happiness wherever it is your move takes you.

Oh don't worry I will continue to cast my votes here. I already have a home in Europe and always had, this is not some blind move. I just cant justify living here. The place has gotten so bad on so many levels and its only getting worse. And most of it revolves around infrastructure at the end of the day and several other government policies that compound the problems. The sad thing is that nothing will change any time soon (as in within the next couple decades), and that means things will only get exponentially worse. So I will jump ship, continue to vote, and if things change potentially come back to elsewhere in BC. Metro Vancouver wont be livable in my life time (not a place I want to live in), it chose its path and now its pretty much set at this point. But the new people moving in from the developing world don't mind, their standards are lower and they don't complain. My wife from Brasil thought it was wonderful here, well yeah compared to what she grew up in it is. But compared to my standards its not, and its getting worse.

I mean do you want to counter argue my point? Ok so I buy a adequately sized home (1200-2400 square feet), somewhere in the distant suburbs, and commute through worsening gridlock (which cant get better because the metro put its self in a corner and any public transit solutions are literally too expensive if not too impossible to implement within the next probably 50 years) for a couple hours every day? How much will this cost me? How does this make sense? I can have a bigger home anywhere in Europe for the same price or less, and be within 30 min of most cities centers via public or private transport. I already have a home there. I work remote from here but if I chose to change jobs (I dont like to work remote too much, only the flexibility to be able to is good) my earning potential there is still higher then here. My earning potential in Prague is higher then here in my industry, and that's with significantly lower costs of living. Like I said Canada, and Vancouver was among the best places in the world in the 90s still. How far things have fallen as a result of poor provincial, municipal, and federal policies.

I do want to make this place better. But I thought long and hard about it and it cant be better, it can only be worse at this point. The chain of events is already in motion unless immigration rates drop drastically until infrastructure can start catching up, that is the only thing that could help imo at this point.

[Feathered Friend]

By Glen Korstrom
https://www.biv.com/article/2017/3/court-approves-first-condominium-sale-under-bill-4/

Court approves first condominium sale under Bill 40
Numbered company buys project at West 12th Avenue and Oak Street for $21.5 million

This slipped past me in March. However, I noticed the sold sign when I went walking past today. I hope we get better density here than at the nearby 10th and Oak project.