Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

There are few places sketchier than the Ottawa bus terminal.

There's witnesses everywhere though. I'd rather have a few people in baggy clothes walk past me than stand around in an empty transitway station with no one in earshot (especially after dark).

Seriously, so many of the transitway stations seem like the perfect place to get murdered or at least mugged.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Read the HFR proposal. Since the trains run faster, they'll be able to do more turns with the same equipment. This means higher asset utilization on the same fixed cost base. And even improve efficiency of variables like their staff. So they'll be offer a lot more seats. They think they can beat out the bus, and from looking at what will happen, I think they will come close. Would you take HFR if it was $50 and VIA was $41? Maybe some folks will. But I suspect quite a few will move to the train.



They aren't even looking to make fares higher though. Desjardins-Sciliano has been very specific in his pitch for HFR. He specifically stated that he doesn't support HSR because if you look at fares and ridership in Europe, it excludes the middle class. He's also said that fares should come down with more seats and that he wants to attract those who drive today. That tells me that they'll make this competitive with the bus.

Replying on the Via rail thread.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

This may be true, but it will still appear under utilized. VIA has what, 12 departures and 12 arrivals a day for a total of 24? The LRT will likely have well over 500 departures a day (both directions). That means even if every VIA passenger took the LRT (not likely), the vast majority of LRT trains still won't have anyone getting on or off to transfer to/from a VIA train.

There should be a lot more to the area than just VIA. See the development plans the city has put forward to that area.

Originally Posted by roger1818

Yes it may be nice the traveller, though there likely wouldn't be fare integration, so the trip would be more expensive. More significantly, but it wouldn't be beneficial to Greyhound. Currently if you want to take the bus from Toronto to Cumberland or Limoges or from Montreal to Pembrooke, you take the bus the whole way. With a inter-modal station, some business will be lost to VIA.

If they don't do this, competitors will spring up who will pick up pax at the station. Heck, VIA could expand into the space themselves!

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by roger1818

This may be true, but it will still appear under utilized. VIA has what, 12 departures and 12 arrivals a day for a total of 24? The LRT will likely have well over 500 departures a day (both directions). That means even if every VIA passenger took the LRT (not likely), the vast majority of LRT trains still won't have anyone getting on or off to transfer to/from a VIA train.

This is true but keep in mind that in the past few years there has been a big increase in VIA service.. especially on the Ottawa-Toronto route. The number of trips on that line has increased from 64 per week in 2011 to 116 per week now, and ridership has been growing at double-digit percentages every year. There will still be more LRT departures than train departures obviously, but VIA isn't "a handful of trains per day" anymore like it used to be. So on top of the increased percentage of VIA passengers taking the train there's more VIA passengers too.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This is true but keep in mind that in the past few years there has been a big increase in VIA service.. especially on the Ottawa-Toronto route. The number of trips on that line has increased from 64 per week in 2011 to 116 per week now, and ridership has been growing at double-digit percentages every year. There will still be more LRT departures than train departures obviously, but VIA isn't "a handful of trains per day" anymore like it used to be. So on top of the increased percentage of VIA passengers taking the train there's more VIA passengers too.

HFR is supposed to offer hourly service according to D-S. That would take it up to at least 16 departures a day if there are no overnights.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Beedok

There's witnesses everywhere though. I'd rather have a few people in baggy clothes walk past me than stand around in an empty transitway station with no one in earshot (especially after dark).

Seriously, so many of the transitway stations seem like the perfect place to get murdered or at least mugged.

And yet, given the volume of people they move, murders, at least, hardly ever happen on the system. (Off hand I can't recall one.)

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And yet, given the volume of people they move, murders, at least, hardly ever happen on the system. (Off hand I can't recall one.)

Not many murders, but a pretty high level of crime.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/mul...-crimes-on-ottawa-s-city-buses-1.3578875

Most of the stations do not seem to have been designed with safety in mind.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Not many murders, but a pretty high level of crime.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/mul...-crimes-on-ottawa-s-city-buses-1.3578875

Most of the stations do not seem to have been designed with safety in mind.

Has that changed with the LRT stations?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Has that changed with the LRT stations?

Not sure where cameras, lights and staff are going to be, but since the LRT was built over top of the BRT I think it will inherit some of the safety challenges, particularly the isolation of the stations.

[Acajack]

I am not one to fear for my personal safety most of the time, but I've always found that the less busy Transitway stations are pretty lonely places at night. Not sure if I'd want my kids to use most of them after dark. The approaches and environs of the stations are also pretty lonely isolated places in many cases.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not one to fear for my personal safety most of the time, but I've always found that the less busy Transitway stations are pretty lonely places at night. Not sure if I'd want my kids to use most of them after dark. The approaches and environs of the stations are also pretty lonely isolated places in many cases.

It's true. I lived near and used Cyrville a lot. I was actually surprised for most of my time near there that there weren't more bums making use of that station. Of course, as time went on the situation did change. And one of the things I am worried about with the new, nicer station, is that it will become a de facto homeless shelter.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Not many murders, but a pretty high level of crime.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/mul...-crimes-on-ottawa-s-city-buses-1.3578875

High level relative to.... what?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not one to fear for my personal safety most of the time, but I've always found that the less busy Transitway stations are pretty lonely places at night. Not sure if I'd want my kids to use most of them after dark. The approaches and environs of the stations are also pretty lonely isolated places in many cases.

That's almost an invetible by-product of picking the cheapest, easiest, right-of-way of least resistance, rather than making your urban transit system, you know... urban.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's true. I lived near and used Cyrville a lot. I was actually surprised for most of my time near there that there weren't more bums making use of that station.

Even bums don't like being in the middle of nowhere.

[Kitchissippi]

Unlike the old Transitway, the LRT stations will have turnstiles and fare-paid areas. If you are not taking the train, you really have no business being inside. In most cases, every train is your train, so there's no reason to hang around and loiterers are easier to spot.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

It's true. I lived near and used Cyrville a lot. I was actually surprised for most of my time near there that there weren't more bums making use of that station. Of course, as time went on the situation did change. And one of the things I am worried about with the new, nicer station, is that it will become a de facto homeless shelter.

The station itself will be behind a faregate, so probably not.

Also remember that the homeless population is expected to decline considerably in the coming years.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Also remember that the homeless population is expected to decline considerably in the coming years.

But people with mental health and addition issues who hang around transit stations probably will not.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And one of the things I am worried about with the new, nicer station, is that it will become a de facto homeless shelter.

While the stations may not have security guards stationed at them, they will come by periodically and turf out any bums that are using it as a shelter. If they come back, they can call the police. The bums will get the message that they aren't welcome.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

But people with mental health and addition issues who hang around transit stations probably will not.

True, but such people probably won't be doing it overnight, which was what Truenorth00 was worried about.

[Beedok]

It's worth noting that once the western extension is built there will be people waiting multiple trains due to the forked nature of the system over there.

And there's going to be more folks forced to transfer to buses at Hurdman than today (and looking at that map Hurdman is already the most dangerous station), thanks to all the South Keys area 90s and such no longer going downtown.