Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Depends on price. If greyhound continues to offer fares for $41 and Via continues to offer fares in the $80-$125 range then I think Greyhound will keep most of its business. If Via has to charge more to cover part of the capital cost of the project then greyhound may even benefit.

Places that have high frequency train service usually also have bus service.

For Ottawa-Toronto $40 Greyhound fare compares to $50 Via fare actually.
Unfortunately many people don't realize that and keep using smelly buses keeping Via trains short.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

For Ottawa-Toronto $40 Greyhound fare compares to $50 Via fare actually.
Unfortunately many people don't realize that and keep using smelly buses keeping Via trains short.

It is almost impossible to get a $50 ($44 I think) fare to Toronto without booking way in advance. The cheapest Greyhound fare is usually available with as little as one day of advance booking.

I certainly I agree with you. I strongly prefer the train to the bus.

[Beedok]

Via and Greyhound are really about even to me. Only real advantage is Via might have some nicer routes near waterways as rail was built before highways.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I went shopping at Trainyards for the first time this past weekend!

In related news, I likely went shopping at Trainyards for the last time this past weekend!

For such a central location, it is a planning disaster. The City of Ottawa should be ashamed of allowing such a mess. It is built like it was the new shopping area in Barrhaven.

I hate how sprawled out it is and how confusing it is.

I almost never go there.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

For Ottawa-Toronto $40 Greyhound fare compares to $50 Via fare actually.
Unfortunately many people don't realize that and keep using smelly buses keeping Via trains short.

Where are these fares available?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

For such a central location, it is a planning disaster. The City of Ottawa should be ashamed of allowing such a mess. It is built like it was the new shopping area in Barrhaven.

I hate how sprawled out it is and how confusing it is.

I almost never go there.

Dunno if you've noticed, but they are incapable of shame.

We are now on, by my count, the fifth official plan which deprecates sprawl and demands better urban planning and design. Yet the city keeps approving crap like this.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Via and Greyhound are really about even to me. Only real advantage is Via might have some nicer routes near waterways as rail was built before highways.

VIA would gain an advantage if it could deliver faster service. At that point (and to a small degree it already does), it will compete with airline travel.

That will justify higher fares compared to Greyhound service.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Dunno if you've noticed, but they are incapable of shame.

We are now on, by my count, the fifth official plan which deprecates sprawl and demands better urban planning and design. Yet the city keeps approving crap like this.

They give lip service to better planning and especially in the suburbs, it still ends up being highly pedestrian unfriendly. If there is nobody on the sidewalks, this tells you that we are designing things with only cars in mind.

The real indicator is when shopping areas require you to drive between stores within the same shopping area. Poor urban design.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

VIA would gain an advantage if it could deliver faster service. At that point (and to a small degree it already does), it will compete with airline travel.

That will justify higher fares compared to Greyhound service.

Toronto to Ottawa is maybe a half hour shorter by train (the schedules put it at an hour shorter, but I've never not sat at Smith Falls for roughly half an hour waiting for freight trains to move...) and the added time you have to spend dealing with lines and the confused mess that is union station means that Greyhound is probably quicker (and for those who live downtown Greyhound gets you nice and close to home, without the 20-40 minute OC transpo ride depending on which station you went to). Montreal-Ottawa might be different.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Beedok

The distance is shorter than that at many airports

True, but airports usually have smoother floors than Ottawa sidewalks, and very little in the form of precipitation.

and barely any longer than you get at the train station. After that short 1 block walk you can catch the 1 or 7, which are two of the more reliable and frequent non transit-way routes.

The 1 and 7 don't often get accused of being reliable.

The 101 is either right there or just a block away (which again is much shorter of a distance than gate to buses at most airports). Shelters would be nice

Why, yes they would.

but as it stands now I'd rather be taking a bus from the bus station than the train station, and it was probably about even back when the transitway was open as that bus stop felt super sketchy and lonely...

There are few places sketchier than the Ottawa bus terminal.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

They give lip service to better planning and especially in the suburbs, it still ends up being highly pedestrian unfriendly. If there is nobody on the sidewalks, this tells you that we are designing things with only cars in mind.

The real indicator is when shopping areas require you to drive between stores within the same shopping area. Poor urban design.

Yip. And mainly topological in nature. So easy to fix. So little will to do so.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Where are these fares available?

Via website (escape fare but you have to book pretty far in advance to get the $44 fare)

Greyhound website, web fare

These are one way fares

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Via website (escape fare but you have to book pretty far in advance to get the $44 fare)

Greyhound website, web fare

These are one way fares

Booked Via to Toronto a week ago for travel this Saturday. Got a $48 escape fare.

Far prefer the comfort of the train to the bus (even knowing that I will inevitably be a half hour later than the schedule says).

[Mikeed]

As someone who takes both the bus / train to Toronto to make connections to points further (use to take the bus to North Bay to do the same before Greyhound gutted their northern routes)

The train is at least an hour faster than the bus- the fastest train is 4hr5mins to a much better hub (union), and any delay with train traffic is *AT LEAST* matched by highway congestion on the DVP, plus the halfway stop in where ever, and jog to Scarborough town centre adds time to a slower mode of transportation going a longer distance.

[McC]

This all is very OT.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

For Ottawa-Toronto $40 Greyhound fare compares to $50 Via fare actually.
Unfortunately many people don't realize that and keep using smelly buses keeping Via trains short.

Actually train has a higher market share than buses in the corridor.. and by a big margin too IIRC. I saw the numbers once and it was something like five times more people take VIA.

VIA is certainly a much nicer experience.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

If pushed Greyhound could probably even lower their fares. Full buses can probably be profitable at less than $20 a seat.

Sort of. The bus franchising system we have in Ontario means that routes like Toronto-Ottawa have to make big profits because Greyhound is forced to run routes between small towns at a loss. If deregulated then Greyhound fares for major intercity routes could definitely be lower.

[rocketphish]

Construction Update
Week of May 22

Construction along the Confederation Line this week advances with the delivery of escalators and elevators at both the east and west entrances of Lyon Station, and waterproofing at Pimisi Station. Also getting underway is work on the invert of Rideau Station. Masonry at the Lees Station ancillary building is being completed.

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West Stations

Tunney’s Pasture Station
Concrete pours occur for the foundation walls and slabs. Shoring begins for the concourse slab and steel beam installation also takes place.

Bayview Station
Construction advances and includes work on the west side of the station for the platform slabs. Rebar and formwork installation is also ongoing as part of concrete work. Crews pour remaining concourse slabs and begin installing structural steel.
Pimisi Station
Concrete pours for columns and slabs and installation of structural steel are ongoing. Mechanical and electrical rough-in work as well as falsework for the west upper concourse is progressing. Crews mobilize to begin waterproofing of walls.

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Central Stations

Lyon Station cavern
Architectural work progresses in the cavern, with tiling continuing. Installation of escalators, mechanical and electrical rough-ins in the HVAC room and installation of trackwork also continues.

Lyon Station west entrance
The integrated entrance continues to take shape with ongoing work on the head house, concrete works on the ground floor, including curing, as well as forming and pouring the lower stairs. Crews form, pour and cure walls at the east vent shaft walls. Rock removals occur at the Lyon west vent shaft.

Lyon Station east entrance
This week, installation of the station elevators and rough-ins occur. In addition, masonry is installed on the retail concourse level and concrete curing takes place on the mezzanine level. Final concrete works occur at the HVAC shaft and painting begins as part of architectural work.

Parliament Station cavern
Final arch concrete lining pours progress this week. Crews finish installing rebar and conduits to prepare to pour the next section of deck. Architectural work occurs in the cavern.

Parliament Station west entrance
Integrated entrance construction advances with hoe ramming, rock support and shotcrete activities in addition to rock bolt installation.

Parliament Station east entrance
Concrete work ramps up this week and includes installation of rebar and formwork for the station’s lower pit walls. The roof slab work is being completed and rebar installation begins

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Rideau Station cavern
Construction of the station cavern continues to advance with final lining work occurring on the arch and the invert. Crews begin spraying shotcrete this week as part of final lining work, waterproofing the adit area and installing rebar for upcoming concrete pours on the walls.

Rideau Station west entrance
Waterproofing of the invert occurs this week. Excavation for the escalator takes place during the daytime and overnight as required.

Rideau Station east entrance
Integrated entrance construction continues to advance at surface level with the installation of rebar for HVAC walls and ongoing formwork and concrete pours for the station west walls and elevator roof slab. Roof falsework is completed and crews begin to install rebar.

East Portal
Renewal work continues with rebar installation and concrete pours on the west and east walls of the ramp.

uOttawa Station
The station continues to take shape with ongoing concrete work. Roofing and framing occurs for upcoming porcelain panel installation at the concourse level. Next phase of steel installation continues.

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East Stations

Lees Station
Rebar, formwork and concrete pours in cycles for the upper concourse area advance at the station. Work on the service trench connecting the station and ancillary building continues. Mechanical and electrical rough-in work at the concourse level progresses. The next phase of structural steel work also continues this week.

Hurdman Station
Progress continues to be visible at the station with ongoing framing and structural steel installation, escalator and electrical work. Concrete pours for the suspended slabs and installation of the south escalator occurs. Interior finishing at the bus operator building concludes.

Tremblay Station
Crews continue installing composite and porcelain panels and working on elevators to prepare for the arrival of the elevators. Initial landscaping also occurs and includes parapet work at the west ring road. Cast-in-place concrete construction is ongoing, including curbs. Signband conduit and elevator installation continues along with painting of structural steel. Crews mobilize to begin skylight framing and glazing.

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St-Laurent Station
Final platform finishes, precast concrete stair work, work on doors and escalator cladding all advance. Platform level electrical and sprinkler installation at the concourse continues along with porcelain panel installation. Headhouse structural work and work on the HVAC shaft continues.

Cyrville Station
Construction advances and includes glazing, work on precast concrete stairs, and station signage. Signband conduit installation is progressing. Concrete pours for platform topping and landscaping continue.

Blair Station
Glazing activities and final finishes on the platform are ongoing. Porcelain panel installation, precast concrete stair caulking, painting, installation of doors and hardware progresses. Electrical conduit is installed for signband installation to progress. Testing and commissioning of mechanical equipment, light fixture installation and interior finishing is underway. Platform topping installation is to commence.

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Guideway and Trackwork

The guideway continues to take shape along the alignment: Overhead Catenary System poles are being installed just west of Bayview station moving east to Pimisi Station, rails are being pulled and dowels installed in the tunnel moving east. In addition, trackwork activities occur just east of uOttawa Station to Hurdman Station, including pulling rail and ballast tamping. System crews have completed the installation of wires to allow the test track and vehicle testing to advance in the east section of the alignment.

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Upcoming Construction Activities

In the coming weeks, the following construction activities are scheduled to occur:

• Hoe ramming as part of work on the western section of the guideway.
• Delivery and installation of the Traction Power Sub Station east of Pimisi Station.
• Ongoing overnight work at the Rideau Station west and east entrances, and at the East Portal.
• Next stage of work at uOttawa Station requiring overnight lane restrictions.
• Final work on the pedestrian tunnel at uOttawa Station.
• Hydro connection work to Hurdman Station requiring lane restriction on Riverside Drive.
• Manhole work as part of guideway activities at intersection of Riverside Drive and Tremblay Road, requiring lane restrictions.
• Fencing installation on guideway just west of Tremblay Station.
• Systems installation along the guideway, including Overhead Catenary System poles and wires.
• Elevator installation at uOttawa Station.
• Masonry at the ancillary building at Bayview Station.
• Electrical and communications room installations at Lees Station.
• Soft ground excavation at Parliament Station requiring overnight work.
• Elevator installation at Lyon Station

http://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/construction/construction-update-125/

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Depends on price. If greyhound continues to offer fares for $41 and Via continues to offer fares in the $80-$125 range then I think Greyhound will keep most of its business. If Via has to charge more to cover part of the capital cost of the project then greyhound may even benefit.

Places that have high frequency train service usually also have bus service.

Read the HFR proposal. Since the trains run faster, they'll be able to do more turns with the same equipment. This means higher asset utilization on the same fixed cost base. And even improve efficiency of variables like their staff. So they'll be offer a lot more seats. They think they can beat out the bus, and from looking at what will happen, I think they will come close. Would you take the bus if it was $41 and VIA was $50 but got you there 2 hrs faster? Maybe some folks will. But I suspect quite a few will move to the train.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

VIA would gain an advantage if it could deliver faster service. At that point (and to a small degree it already does), it will compete with airline travel.

That will justify higher fares compared to Greyhound service.

They aren't even looking to make fares higher though. Desjardins-Sciliano has been very specific in his pitch for HFR. He specifically stated that he doesn't support HSR because if you look at fares and ridership in Europe, it excludes the middle class. He's also said that fares should come down with more seats and that he wants to attract those who drive today. That tells me that they'll make this competitive with the bus.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

1) The mode switch and the improvement of service means a much greater share of VIA travellers will use it--before, only a tiny handful of VIA passengers ever used the bus, most just took a cab. Keep in mind that VIA passengers are significantly more likely than the general public to have a "rail bias" (I mean, they're people who generally chose the train over the typically cheaper Greyhound bus).

This may be true, but it will still appear under utilized. VIA has what, 12 departures and 12 arrivals a day for a total of 24? The LRT will likely have well over 500 departures a day (both directions). That means even if every VIA passenger took the LRT (not likely), the vast majority of LRT trains still won't have anyone getting on or off to transfer to/from a VIA train.

2) The addition of the footbridge to Coventry Road increases usage potential--employment sites and some retail on the other side are now accessible

It will help a bit, but the overpass primarily serves the baseball stadium along with a couple hotels and a conference centre. From what I can tell (using street view), direct access to the retail is fenced off, so you have to walk around the fence to Coventry Rd.

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You don't get the advantage of integration? You get off the HFR from Toronto and take a bus to Cumberland or Limoges. Or you train in from Montreal and take a bus to Pembrooke. Connections become easy.

Yes it may be nice the traveller, though there likely wouldn't be fare integration, so the trip would be more expensive. More significantly, but it wouldn't be beneficial to Greyhound. Currently if you want to take the bus from Toronto to Cumberland or Limoges or from Montreal to Pembrooke, you take the bus the whole way. With a inter-modal station, some business will be lost to VIA.

Originally Posted by Beedok

The distance is shorter than that at many airports and barely any longer than you get at the train station.

It may be shorter, but have you looked at the sidewalk? Power poles, man hole covers, potholes patched with asphalt and not set back from the road. On top of that, no signs saying which way to catch the city bus. Not the friendliest route for tourists with luggage.

After that short 1 block walk you can catch the 1 or 7, which are two of the more reliable and frequent non transit-way routes.

Aren't those the routes that were listed as being the most cancelled routes due to traffic (see OC Transpo pins traffic as culprit for most cancellations)? Hardly what I would call a sign of a reliable route.

The 101 is either right there or just a block away (which again is much shorter of a distance than gate to buses at most airports).

That one block walk to the eastbound bus stop is under the Queensway beside fast, busy traffic. Not a warm fuzzy in my books.