Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The St Laurent bus station will be way oversized for a half dozen or so local routes. It would be a good place for these exurban services (and wouldn't require new construction).

Plus St. Laurent has a better connection to the highway which is how the buses have to get out to the exurbs.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Tremblay station seems so massive for its use since I only ever noticed a handful of people getting off the Transitway here before.

It's true that the old Transitway station at Train was very low ridership but the new Tremblay station will probably do considerably better for two reasons:

1) The mode switch and the improvement of service means a much greater share of VIA travellers will use it--before, only a tiny handful of VIA passengers ever used the bus, most just took a cab. Keep in mind that VIA passengers are significantly more likely than the general public to have a "rail bias" (I mean, they're people who generally chose the train over the typically cheaper Greyhound bus). The leg from Hurdman to Blair is also where the frequency improvements of the BRT to LRT switch will be most felt, as that section actually had pretty poor frequencies in the Transitway days, especially in the evenings.

2) The addition of the footbridge to Coventry Road increases usage potential--employment sites and some retail on the other side are now accessible

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The St Laurent bus station will be way oversized for a half dozen or so local routes. It would be a good place for these exurban services (and wouldn't require new construction).

Tremblay makes way more sense. Especially when HFR happens with VIA. It'll be a true multi-modal hub. That bus depot on Catherine is pathetically useless. I hope the buses are forced to move when VIA runs Toronto and Montreal buses out of business.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Tremblay makes way more sense. Especially when HFR happens with VIA. It'll be a true multi-modal hub. That bus depot on Catherine is pathetically useless. I hope the buses are forced to move when VIA runs Toronto and Montreal buses out of business.

What is the advantage of a multi-modal hub? The exurb buses cater to commuters, and the intercity buses and trains do not have the same customers (either you're going to take a bus or you're going to take the train).

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's true that the old Transitway station at Train was very low ridership but the new Tremblay station will probably do considerably better for two reasons:

1) The mode switch and the improvement of service means a much greater share of VIA travellers will use it--before, only a tiny handful of VIA passengers ever used the bus, most just took a cab. Keep in mind that VIA passengers are significantly more likely than the general public to have a "rail bias" (I mean, they're people who generally chose the train over the typically cheaper Greyhound bus). The leg from Hurdman to Blair is also where the frequency improvements of the BRT to LRT switch will be most felt, as that section actually had pretty poor frequencies in the Transitway days, especially in the evenings.

2) The addition of the footbridge to Coventry Road increases usage potential--employment sites and some retail on the other side are now accessible

I'd add that taking luggage on an LRT line is generally easier and there is usually a bit more room for it than on a bus.

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's true that the old Transitway station at Train was very low ridership but the new Tremblay station will probably do considerably better for two reasons:

1) The mode switch and the improvement of service means a much greater share of VIA travellers will use it--before, only a tiny handful of VIA passengers ever used the bus, most just took a cab. Keep in mind that VIA passengers are significantly more likely than the general public to have a "rail bias" (I mean, they're people who generally chose the train over the typically cheaper Greyhound bus). The leg from Hurdman to Blair is also where the frequency improvements of the BRT to LRT switch will be most felt, as that section actually had pretty poor frequencies in the Transitway days, especially in the evenings.

2) The addition of the footbridge to Coventry Road increases usage potential--employment sites and some retail on the other side are now accessible

To add to that, if they ever get a bridge over/tunnel under the train tracks to connect with Trainyards, you would see a decent increase of use for the LRT station as well.

No idea if that's even a thing right now, but I know I had heard rumblings of it at some point

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What is the advantage of a multi-modal hub? The exurb buses cater to commuters, and the intercity buses and trains do not have the same customers (either you're going to take a bus or you're going to take the train).

Plus if any sort of Bank St. subway/LRT/whatever ever gets built then suddenly the bus station downtown is in a pretty good local. Not that it isn't in a good local already... centrally located, right beside the highway, decent transit options to elsewhere in the city as is.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

To add to that, if they ever get a bridge over/tunnel under the train tracks to connect with Trainyards, you would see a decent increase of use for the LRT station as well.

No idea if that's even a thing right now, but I know I had heard rumblings of it at some point

I went shopping at Trainyards for the first time this past weekend!

In related news, I likely went shopping at Trainyards for the last time this past weekend!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Plus if any sort of Bank St. subway/LRT/whatever ever gets built then suddenly the bus station downtown is in a pretty good local. Not that it isn't in a good local already... centrally located, right beside the highway, decent transit options to elsewhere in the city as is.

The transit options are awful. That hike to/from Bank Street can be awfully long if you have any kind of luggage. And the bus drivers have to act as tour guides for out-of-towners delivering people to the supposed Central Station bus stops on Bank.

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I went shopping at Trainyards for the first time this past weekend!

In related news, I likely went shopping at Trainyards for the last time this past weekend!

Hahah this is basically my opinion of the Trainyards as well. I only go there if I can't get it at somewhere else more convenient. I don't understand the appeal of having to drive across parking lots to shop at 5 different stores...

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Plus if any sort of Bank St. subway/LRT/whatever ever gets built then suddenly the bus station downtown is in a pretty good local. Not that it isn't in a good local already... centrally located, right beside the highway, decent transit options to elsewhere in the city as is.

Seriously? The transit connections suck big time, it's only great if you're heading westbound coming out of Greyhound. The site is surrounded by one way streets on three sides and only one has transit. To get downtown the stop is all the way on the southeast corner of Bank and Catherine with three extremely busy crosswalks to manage, southbound walk an extra block either way. Eastbound it's worse, you have to dive under the Queensway to the other side of Chamberlain. None of these flung out stops have shelters either, so if it's raining you're SOL

The possibility of a Bank Street subway/LRT/streetcar is virtually nil in the foreseeable future, it's not even a faint whisper in any of the city's planning documents.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

Hahah this is basically my opinion of the Trainyards as well. I only go there if I can't get it at somewhere else more convenient. I don't understand the appeal of having to drive across parking lots to shop at 5 different stores...

Yeah, it was either there, or Kanata, and I was too pressed for time - I thought - to go to Kanata.

I now realize it would have been more time-effective to just go to Kanata... and I live only a few km from Trainyards.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

To add to that, if they ever get a bridge over/tunnel under the train tracks to connect with Trainyards, you would see a decent increase of use for the LRT station as well.

No idea if that's even a thing right now, but I know I had heard rumblings of it at some point

Well, there already is a tunnel under the VIA station connecting to the trainyards, but its not open to the general public unless you have a ticket for a VIA train, and even then, I believe its not possible to exit at the Trainyards side. So the potential is there, but for that to happen, VIA has to shift the fare paid zone to the train platforms, at which point the tunnel could be accessible to the general public.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Radster

Well, there already is a tunnel under the VIA station connecting to the trainyards, but its not open to the general public unless you have a ticket for a VIA train, and even then, I believe its not possible to exit at the Trainyards side. So the potential is there, but for that to happen, VIA has to shift the fare paid zone to the train platforms, at which point the tunnel could be accessible to the general public.

Actually, there is a proposed office building that's supposed to link the Trainyards side to the LRT station via an extension of that tunnel, if it ever get's built:

http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Image%...eference_Elevations%20D07-12-10-0266.PDF

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What is the advantage of a multi-modal hub? The exurb buses cater to commuters, and the intercity buses and trains do not have the same customers (either you're going to take a bus or you're going to take the train).

You don't get the advantage of integration? You get off the HFR from Toronto and take a bus to Cumberland or Limoges. Or you train in from Montreal and take a bus to Pembrooke. Connections become easy.

Originally Posted by Beedok

Plus if any sort of Bank St. subway/LRT/whatever ever gets built then suddenly the bus station downtown is in a pretty good local. Not that it isn't in a good local already... centrally located, right beside the highway, decent transit options to elsewhere in the city as is.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Seriously? The transit connections suck big time, it's only great if you're heading westbound coming out of Greyhound. The site is surrounded by one way streets on three sides and only one has transit. To get downtown the stop is all the way on the southeast corner of Bank and Catherine with three extremely busy crosswalks to manage, southbound walk an extra block either way. Eastbound it's worse, you have to dive under the Queensway to the other side of Chamberlain. None of these flung out stops have shelters either, so if it's raining you're SOL

The possibility of a Bank Street subway/LRT/streetcar is virtually nil in the foreseeable future, it's not even a faint whisper in any of the city's planning documents.

Seriously. Only in Ottawa would a bus station that has horrible access by public transit be considered to be "in a pretty good locale". I can't wait for VIA's HFR to demolish Greyhound. Half their business loss may simply come from the useless location of the bus terminal, off the LRT.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The transit options are awful. That hike to/from Bank Street can be awfully long if you have any kind of luggage. And the bus drivers have to act as tour guides for out-of-towners delivering people to the supposed Central Station bus stops on Bank.

The distance is shorter than that at many airports and barely any longer than you get at the train station. After that short 1 block walk you can catch the 1 or 7, which are two of the more reliable and frequent non transit-way routes. The 101 is either right there or just a block away (which again is much shorter of a distance than gate to buses at most airports). Shelters would be nice, but as it stands now I'd rather be taking a bus from the bus station than the train station, and it was probably about even back when the transitway was open as that bus stop felt super sketchy and lonely...

[1overcosc]

^ Yeah.. with HFR providing faster trains, more trips, and cheaper schedules, Greyhound may be forced to withdraw from the Ottawa-Toronto and Ottawa-Montreal routes as the ridership loss to VIA will be significant.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You don't get the advantage of integration? You get off the HFR from Toronto and take a bus to Cumberland or Limoges. Or you train in from Montreal and take a bus to Pembrooke. Connections become easy.

There's what one bus from Limoges to Ottawa that leaves about 6:00 am and returns about 4:30? I think the likelyhood that any of these customers are taking the bus because they want to get on a train is pretty low, and if it does happen they have a pretty short LRT ride to get to the train station.

Integration makes sense if it supports itineraries that significant numbers of people want to make. Integration for the sake if integration (particularly if there is a significant cost) makes no sense to me.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

^ Yeah.. with HFR providing faster trains, more trips, and cheaper schedules, Greyhound may be forced to withdraw from the Ottawa-Toronto and Ottawa-Montreal routes as the ridership loss to VIA will be significant.

Depends on price. If greyhound continues to offer fares for $41 and Via continues to offer fares in the $80-$125 range then I think Greyhound will keep most of its business. If Via has to charge more to cover part of the capital cost of the project then greyhound may even benefit.

Places that have high frequency train service usually also have bus service.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Depends on price. If greyhound continues to offer fares for $41 and Via continues to offer fares in the $80-$125 range then I think Greyhound will keep most of its business. If Via has to charge more to cover part of the capital cost of the project then greyhound may even benefit.

Places that have high frequency train service usually also have bus service.

If pushed Greyhound could probably even lower their fares. Full buses can probably be profitable at less than $20 a seat.