Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Anorak]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

anyone heard if they will use 1 large tunnel, (Evergreen-Extension), or 2 small tunnels, (Canada-Line)?

If I was a betting man I'd say two tunnels given that is what is most widely used around the world

[s211]

Originally Posted by jlousa

They didn't release staff presentations until the day of yesterdays council meeting instead of the week before as usual. They also added a couple of slides leading people to vote NDP... seems like an odd thing to do.

What?

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Anorak

If I was a betting man I'd say two tunnels given that is what is most widely used around the world

I'd bet the opposite, since the LIM trains are much smaller in cross section than the median subway car. They can get away with a much smaller single bore than a normal electric-traction train.

Canada line went with twin bores and conventional rolling stock.

Evergreen went with a single bore and LIM rolling stock.

Unless the economics have shifted significantly, then it will likely be a single 9m-ish diameter bore.

[jlousa]

Originally Posted by s211

What?

Read slide #20 in the presentation I linked too, all 3 of the last attached slides seemed like a weird thing to add by city staff.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Read slide #20 in the presentation I linked too, all 3 of the last attached slides seemed like a weird thing to add by city staff.

probably told to add them by council...

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by Anorak

If I was a betting man I'd say two tunnels given that is what is most widely used around the world

Never underestimate the power of having two tunneling crews, and each crew wants the bragging rights of "we're the best at ..."

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Yeah ideology does seem to be a theme with current council...
They didn't release staff presentations until the day of yesterdays council meeting instead of the week before as usual. They also added a couple of slides leading people to vote NDP... seems like an odd thing to do. Anyways good info on both presentations including some dates.

COV Broadway extension
http://council.vancouver.ca/20170502/documents/rr1bpresentation.pdf

Translink update...with 3 non-translink created pages tacked on slides at the end.
http://council.vancouver.ca/20170502/documents/rr1apresentation.pdf

The mayors council has been making noise about our public transit being a big deal and that all of the parties should make it a major part of their platform - so the first two of those pages don't surprise me. It's not until the third page that it looks they're telling you who to vote for.

One little tidbit: "Full underground integration with Cambie St. Canada Line station"

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The mayors council has been making noise about our public transit being a big deal and that all of the parties should make it a major part of their platform - so the first two of those pages don't surprise me. It's not until the third page that it looks they're telling you who to vote for.

I don't think City Council's hinting that you should vote NDP, just that they're the only party that promised everything we've been asking for.

NDP voters will vote NDP anyway... and now they have another talking point.
Green/Liberal voters will think "sure, is there anything they won't promise to do?"
And most undecided voters are still going to be undecided. One measly PDF slide won't change anything, and they know it.

Originally Posted by Sheba

One little tidbit: "Full underground integration with Cambie St. Canada Line station"

And here I was, looking forward to exiting the stations and standing at a red light in order to transfer...

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

I don't think City Council's hinting that you should vote NDP, just that they're the only party that promised everything we've been asking for.

NDP voters will vote NDP anyway... and now they have another talking point.
Green/Liberal voters will think "sure, is there anything they won't promise to do?"
And most undecided voters are still going to be undecided. One measly PDF slide won't change anything, and they know it.


And here I was, looking forward to exiting the stations and standing at a red light in order to transfer...

Anyone who's committed to a specific party is going to vote for that one - be it NDP, Liberal or Green. FYI the Greens didn't release their full platform until recently and they're basically saying the same thing the NDP are when it comes to public transit. It's only the Libs who seem to hate buses.


...and here I am hating having to exit the station and standing at a red light at Metrotown Station

[jollyburger]

The last time they did outreach for a vote it really worked out well for them.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Anyone who's committed to a specific party is going to vote for that one - be it NDP, Liberal or Green. FYI the Greens didn't release their full platform until recently and they're basically saying the same thing the NDP are when it comes to public transit. It's only the Libs who seem to hate buses.


...and here I am hating having to exit the station and standing at a red light at Metrotown Station

Can't blame your current Metrotown situation on the Liberals, that one is purely the city of Burnaby, Translink, and the mall to blame.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And most undecided voters are still going to be undecided. One measly PDF slide won't change anything, and they know it.

The slide may not change it, but the Liberals' policies will. I voted Liberal in the last election, but after the referendum and their general foot-dragging on transit while simultaneously throwing truckloads of money at road infrastructure this time it's NDP for me. It's not that I'm against road infrastructure, but transit deserves at least as much commitment.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Sheba

...and here I am hating having to exit the station and standing at a red light at Metrotown Station

My comment was sarcastic - sorry, I keep forgetting irony doesn't translate over text...

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

but after the referendum and their general foot-dragging on transit while simultaneously throwing truckloads of money at road infrastructure this time it's NDP for me. It's not that I'm against road infrastructure, but transit deserves at least as much commitment.

Again, I get the feeling that it's less the Liberals and more Christy Clark being a spiteful (REDACTED) over being voted out of her own riding. IIRC, Campbell's Liberals liked transit too.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Can't blame your current Metrotown situation on the Liberals, that one is purely the city of Burnaby, Translink, and the mall to blame.

Oh I know. It's more that someone can make such boneheaded decisions, likely someone who won't have to live with it daily...

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

My comment was sarcastic - sorry, I keep forgetting irony doesn't translate over text...


Again, I get the feeling that it's less the Liberals and more Christy Clark being a spiteful (REDACTED) over being voted out of her own riding. IIRC, Campbell's Liberals liked transit too.

I know - but it's pretty much a given that someone was outvoted and is cursing that there will be an underground passage vs making everyone come up to the surface ('cause you know scary things happen underground... ).

Yeah Christy Clark is being pissy about Metro Van - and considering of the 87 ridings it looks like 38 are in Metro Van - that's not the wisest move ever.

[M00dy]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I'd bet the opposite, since the LIM trains are much smaller in cross section than the median subway car. They can get away with a much smaller single bore than a normal electric-traction train.

Canada line went with twin bores and conventional rolling stock.

Evergreen went with a single bore and LIM rolling stock.

Unless the economics have shifted significantly, then it will likely be a single 9m-ish diameter bore.

Evergreen original concept was a twin bore. Winning bidder proposed the single bore as a cost saving measure. You can argue whether or not it was better economically, but having a larger bore almost certainly contributed to the delays/sink-holes on the tunneling.

Evergreen was 10m ID

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Sheba

...and here I am hating having to exit the station and standing at a red light at Metrotown Station

Same as lots of downtown stations depending on your destination and time of day.

Ultimately, when the south side of Beresford is built out, the station will be better integrated into the neighbourhood with people coming down to grade and distribution from there, rather than funnelling everyone to the mall.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Same as lots of downtown stations depending on your destination and time of day.

Those suck too. If you're trying to get from the Canada to the Millennium/Expo (or vice versa), it means you need to get somewhere else; you're not suddenly going to stop being in a hurry and start window shopping.

Originally Posted by officedweller

Ultimately, when the south side of Beresford is built out, the station will be better integrated into the neighbourhood with people coming down to grade and distribution from there, rather than funnelling everyone to the mall.

That's what ground-level exits (or a south side overpass and elevated street) are for. If people want to go to Metrotown, let them go to Metrotown. Why force them to cross the road?

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Those suck too. If you're trying to get from the Canada to the Millennium/Expo (or vice versa), it means you need to get somewhere else; you're not suddenly going to stop being in a hurry and start window shopping.

The Bay should really vacate that lower floor and lease it to translink or the city so it can be a proper open transfer area between the 2 lines with standalone retail kiosks and remove as many walls as possible.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Those suck too. If you're trying to get from the Canada to the Millennium/Expo (or vice versa), it means you need to get somewhere else; you're not suddenly going to stop being in a hurry and start window shopping.



That's what ground-level exits (or a south side overpass and elevated street) are for. If people want to go to Metrotown, let them go to Metrotown. Why force them to cross the road?

Yeah, it is not an ultimatum.

Metrotown is the regions largest and busiest mall, having a direct skybridge to the train station beside it is not a revolutionary idea. Essentially anywhere else in the world would have one.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by M00dy

Evergreen original concept was a twin bore. Winning bidder proposed the single bore as a cost saving measure. You can argue whether or not it was better economically, but having a larger bore almost certainly contributed to the delays/sink-holes on the tunneling.

Evergreen was 10m ID

Unless you know something I don't, then I don't think the larger diameter would be worse for the sink holes. Generally bigger TBMs handle boulders better, which leads to less damage and fewer interventions to repair the damage. Interventions are where the sink holes form during excavation.

Perhaps you could argue that the sink holes would be larger in a larger TBM because the area behind the cutter head is larger.