New Downtown Calgary Arena

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

that land is designated for high density residential and mixed commercial residential, and some parkland.

http://www.wcdt.ca/assets/Land-Use/July-2014-Land-Use-Plan/140717-FINAL-LAND-USE-PLAN.pdf

Yup - and that planning process has been in play for a very, very long time, and at this point in addition to master planning, includes creation of a trust and a land leasing process. I cannot imagine it changing (and nor do I think it should).

Fun to speculate sometimes, but a varsity stadium at that location is a non-starter.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

Will be interesting to see concepts/renders but at the pace this is going at - that could be quite a while.

Too bad the only player left out of all this are the Stamps. As a STH its really disappointing.

If Winnipeg can get new NHL and CFL venues in under a decade, I think Calgary can do at least as well.

[technomad]

Originally Posted by JonnyCanuck

I am thinking the space between 11 Ave and the railway tracks might be too narrow for arena/stadiums. Perhaps, if the design included building over top the tracks but then you would need all the land on the north side as well. The space between 9 Ave is even narrower.

If you eliminated the bus barns, there's definitely enough room for a stadium and arena on the railtown lands without bridging the tracks

Alternately, the stadium could be built with a raised playing filed, so a transit facility could remain on site at grade. might even be possible to do the build one half at a time to keep the transit facility active?

Came up with the following layout as a way of bridging Stampede and Railtown lands by expanding conference space north instead of south. To offset, Stampede could sell/swap lands along macleod between the two LRT stations for residential development, or could be used along with lands south of elbow for the athletes village

Stampede trail would be a pedestrian oriented route, connecting 17 av with east village, including a 2nd riff type route though a couple of blocks, rising up through Railtown to go over CP tracks and 9av into Ft Calgary.

The southern strip along 9av between 6st and elbow is pretty tight, so could be tough to get large developments there. I thought this could be a good place for some buildings in scale with what's in inglewood, maybe using saved materials to mimic some lost heritage buildings. some rootftop patios that tied into the pedestrian bridge from ft Calgary to Railtown would be a license to print money...

Could be tough to get all the land owners to the table.. but saturday mornings were made for dreaming

[craner]

There is an article in the Sun today by Rick Bell about the Olympic bid and how it helps the case for a new arena. In the article it mentions:

"The Dome and the proposed new arena would be close to each other and close to the Olympics opening and closing ceremonies at Stampede Park."

First I've heard of this, I assumed the ceremonies would be held at McMahon again. Disappointing because this is another blow to getting a new stadium or at least a substantially renovated McMahon.


OTOH maybe this helps the case for renovating the Stampede grandstand as part of a new football stadium/racetrack that was discussed earlier.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by craner

There is an article in the Sun today by Rick Bell about the Olympic bid and how it helps the case for a new arena. In the article it mentions:

"The Dome and the proposed new arena would be close to each other and close to the Olympics opening and closing ceremonies at Stampede Park."

First I've heard of this, I assumed the ceremonies would be held at McMahon again.

I think that's fantastic, actually. Putting things on their head will get more creativity bubbling. Curious if the thought is the Stampede Grandstand with some sort of temporary second side created JIT for the games starting immediately after Stampede 2025?

Too bad Calgary's winters are so unpredictable, else they could plan a long winding ribbon-like skating rink around the entire track that could be used for the ceremonies, but also over the games as a public space. [just thinking outside of the box - I get there are many technical issues with this type of thing]

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I think that's fantastic, actually. Putting things on their head will get more creativity bubbling. Curious if the thought is the Stampede Grandstand with some sort of temporary second side created JIT for the games starting immediately after Stampede 2025?

Too bad Calgary's winters are so unpredictable, else they could plan a long winding ribbon-like skating rink around the entire track that could be used for the ceremonies, but also over the games as a public space. [just thinking outside of the box - I get there are many technical issues with this type of thing]

If you are locking down a lot of the park inside a security perimeter, putting in a very long skating circuit, even if you needed to artificially cool it, would be awesome. a gift for the city to putting up with everything. Could have it open from the 90 day countdown even on.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by technomad

If you eliminated the bus barns, there's definitely enough room for a stadium and arena on the railtown lands without bridging the tracks

Alternately, the stadium could be built with a raised playing filed, so a transit facility could remain on site at grade. might even be possible to do the build one half at a time to keep the transit facility active?

Came up with the following layout as a way of bridging Stampede and Railtown lands by expanding conference space north instead of south. To offset, Stampede could sell/swap lands along macleod between the two LRT stations for residential development, or could be used along with lands south of elbow for the athletes village

Stampede trail would be a pedestrian oriented route, connecting 17 av with east village, including a 2nd riff type route though a couple of blocks, rising up through Railtown to go over CP tracks and 9av into Ft Calgary.

The southern strip along 9av between 6st and elbow is pretty tight, so could be tough to get large developments there. I thought this could be a good place for some buildings in scale with what's in inglewood, maybe using saved materials to mimic some lost heritage buildings. some rootftop patios that tied into the pedestrian bridge from ft Calgary to Railtown would be a license to print money...

Could be tough to get all the land owners to the table.. but saturday mornings were made for dreaming

Issue I have with this proposal is that I feel the land by the riverwalk would be better served with mixed-used development. The stadium would be only getting 10-14 days/nights of actual use - meaning it would be taking up prime downtown land with no activity for ~350 days a year.

If a new stadium is gonna be built outside of McMahon lands, I think a good spot would be the Green Line's 26 Avenue S.E TOD area. It's in an industrial area so concern about noise isn't an issue, it's at the southern anchor for a future retail street along 11 Street S.E. (and 1.2km walk/one LRT stop from Inglewood), and the undeveloped lands to the west are apparently owned by the city, so acquiring them can be easier. Those lands offer good views of downtown and mountains, so the stadium and surrounding TOD development can be planned and integrated together. With this location, it's still relatively central, and I feel that the stadium wouldn't take away from the area when it's not gameday.

Vehicular traffic from all directions is also accommodated with access from Blackfoot (for Deerfoot commuters) and 25th ave.


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[milomilo]

I like that idea. It would be a good incentive to tidy up the road network around that area as well. Getting from east of Blackfoot over to Macleod and downtown is painful right now.

[PlexiG]

I don't mind the idea, but this would be an extremely expensive earthworks project to build a stadium on a fairly drastic river valley hill side slope.

Originally Posted by Joborule

Issue I have with this proposal is that I feel the land by the riverwalk would be better served with mixed-used development. The stadium would be only getting 10-14 days/nights of actual use - meaning it would be taking up prime downtown land with no activity for ~350 days a year.

If a new stadium is gonna be built outside of McMahon lands, I think a good spot would be the Green Line's 26 Avenue S.E TOD area. It's in an industrial area so concern about noise isn't an issue, it's at the southern anchor for a future retail street along 11 Street S.E. (and 1.2km walk/one LRT stop from Inglewood), and the undeveloped lands to the west are apparently owned by the city, so acquiring them can be easier. Those lands offer good views of downtown and mountains, so the stadium and surrounding TOD development can be planned and integrated together. With this location, it's still relatively central, and I feel that the stadium wouldn't take away from the area when it's not gameday.

Vehicular traffic from all directions is also accommodated with access from Blackfoot (for Deerfoot commuters) and 25th ave.


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[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by PlexiG

I don't mind the idea, but this would be an extremely expensive earthworks project to build a stadium on a fairly drastic river valley hill side slope.

Wouldn't be too bad, you would enter around ice level from 26th Ave and would drive down to probably concourse level from a turn off Blackfoot. My issue is the location, there's nothing in the area except warehouses, so everything would have to be built up around it, and i don't feel the stadium would be a good enough catalyst for this. Crossroads Market would probably do quite well though.

[milomilo]

I think the best thing is the location - it doesn't waste prime land that could be used for better things rather than a gigantic stadium that sees little use most of the year. It would look pretty cool on the hill there too.

I don't think Calgary really struggles to make vibrant districts organically so we shouldn't worry about placing sports buildings to artificially create entertainment zones.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I think the best thing is the location - it doesn't waste prime land that could be used for better things rather than a gigantic stadium that sees little use most of the year. It would look pretty cool on the hill there too.

Now you see the value of Firepark!

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Now you see the value of Firepark!

I was actually thinking that when I was typing that!

If an arena can be worked into Victoria Park with a solid, decent plan with a combination of public and private funds then sure, I'd be good with that as it would be a good way to redevelop that particular area. But a stadium, which is even bigger and less well used? Nah, stick that in an unused wasteland somewhere next to major roadways, like the place we were talking about by Blackfoot, or Firepark, or Balzac.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Wouldn't be too bad, you would enter around ice level from 26th Ave and would drive down to probably concourse level from a turn off Blackfoot. My issue is the location, there's nothing in the area except warehouses, so everything would have to be built up around it, and i don't feel the stadium would be a good enough catalyst for this. Crossroads Market would probably do quite well though.

The location right now is barren, so it's definitely a long play. The drawback in in the stadium is it's size and lack of use that deters it from being a good idea to take up prime downtown land; it's usage wouldn't justify it. So the only other locations you can put it in that's central, accessible both by vehicle and traffic, and isn't intrusive to residential communities, are industrial areas within the city centre range. That would be Firepark and this area south of Ramsey.

The latter I think works best for all parties involved (City, CSEC, and ticket holders) since the area is intended to be developed into higher density in the long-term. The stadium wouldn't be needed to complement this goal, but it also wouldn't interfere, and if anything, complement it. It should provide a nice boost in business for the 11 street retail street on gamedays. The stadium gets to be an anchor for a new high density community.

[Calgarian]

Yeah I guess the Stadium doesn't need to be downtown, I just don't think an industrial area is ideal at all. My preference for the stadium is still the current site, especially with all the redevelopment that is going to happen in the area in the near future.

[artvandelay]

It still makes the most sense to combine the arena and stadium from an economic perspective. Unfortunately our mayor doesn't understand that but he's shown himself to be somewhat of a financial neophyte.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

It still makes the most sense to combine the arena and stadium from an economic perspective. Unfortunately our mayor doesn't understand that but he's shown himself to be somewhat of a financial neophyte.

Sure it makes sense, however there isn't a good location that can accommodate both. And this isn't the Mayor's proposal, it's the Flames, and they need to come up with something better than a site that they won't be able to build on for at least a decade.

[artvandelay]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Sure it makes sense, however there isn't a good location that can accommodate both. And this isn't the Mayor's proposal, it's the Flames, and they need to come up with something better than a site that they won't be able to build on for at least a decade.

The West Village is obviously the best site (transit and vehicular access wise now that the Crowchild changes are moving forward), but you could likely make the Victoria Park bus barn site work with alterations to adjacent roads. A new stadium needs to be closer to downtown and it needs to be multi-purpose (in some way) in order to drive traffic to the facility year round.

Redevelop McMahon as mixed-use office/retail/residential and build an appropriate sized outdoor field for the Dinos on campus. Easy!

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by artvandelay

. Unfortunately our mayor doesn't understand that but he's shown himself to be somewhat of a financial neophyte.

Yes, the Harvard-educated, former McKinsey consultant, Mayor of a city with 1.3M people, tasked with overseeing an operating budget of $2B is a financial neophyte.

Care to list your financial expertise credentials?

[Innersoul1]

Am I the only one who thinks the Blackfoot suggestion is crazy talk. I mean really! I get the idea stadi aren't going to have 365 day usage, but you would never get the team behind an isolated location like that. There is nothing around it. I think it would be a tough sell and in the long run we would end up in a similar situation as Ottawa, where the isolation of the arena demands a better location.