New Downtown Calgary Arena

[SEsupporter]

I would be in favour of building Calgary next on expanded Victoria park planb land. No creosote/lack of parking/road issues etc IF the new arena alone is over 500 million and the cgynext combined stadium,fieldhouse,arena is 880 million. Win-win for all if flames put in some more money. McMahan is crap and saddledome if you are over 6ft tall. No foot room at all and have cramped leg room. I'd put in taxpayer money to finally build it all for 880 million on vicpark expanded site

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by PPAR

Two questions
Is the plan to keep the Saddledome as an operational facility, and potentially related, is there any talk of how this development could tie into an Olympic bid?

This is still to be determined. An Olympic Games would certainly influence how long it would be kept in a similar function as it is now.

[Fuzz]

It is a little odd that when they dropped CalgaryNEXT they didn't consider moving the whole thing to Vic Park. Is there a reason for that? They'd need the block to the east as well, but that looks doable.

[MalcolmTucker]

The issue with CalgaryNext beyond the creosote was that the city was unwilling to invest in the cost difference between a small capacity field house and a cfl game capacity one. Wasn't seen as offsetting a similar scale investment in a cfl stadium elsewhere.

[Cyric]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It is a little odd that when they dropped CalgaryNEXT they didn't consider moving the whole thing to Vic Park. Is there a reason for that? They'd need the block to the east as well, but that looks doable.

The blocks to the east of where plan B has been proposed already have planned developments so I doubt the Stampede board would be interested in including that with the land swap. Those blocks are part of the Youth Campus and Calgary Opera developments.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by Cyric

The blocks to the east of where plan B has been proposed already have planned developments so I doubt the Stampede board would be interested in including that with the land swap. Those blocks are part of the Youth Campus and Calgary Opera developments.

I remember complaining about those developments as they turned their backs on 12 Ave (and were generally boring). I hope they make changes, since there will be a ton of pedestrian activity in the area if the arena is indeed built across the street.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by PPAR

Two questions
Is the plan to keep the Saddledome as an operational facility, and potentially related, is there any talk of how this development could tie into an Olympic bid?

Woulde definitely make sense to keep the Saddledome for the Olympics, we can have the figure skating in the Dome, and hockey in the new barn. Sadly the Corral is protected, because it would make sense to demolish that place and keep the Saddledome.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Woulde definitely make sense to keep the Saddledome for the Olympics, we can have the figure skating in the Dome, and hockey in the new barn. Sadly the Corral is protected, because it would make sense to demolish that place and keep the Saddledome.

And afterwards, selectively retire interior parts of the dome to get it to a nice, well workable) 5-8000 person concert venue, unless the maintenance would be insane.

[Beazley66]

The mixed-use, multi modal possibilities offer some pretty exciting potential. I was listening in on the council meeting webcast, and the discussion was also about the "pending" Green Line LRT. That aspect of planned development ie. schedule, route etc. is probably applying some stress on providing a comprehensive development. Also, Lamb developments, I believe, has purchased additional plots in and around Orchard, and that is pretty awesome. The bigger challenge for me would be envisioning a comprehensive urban strategy with projects that are already anticipated, or under construction. It's not like Broadway Malyans' East Village master-plan, which was a more clearly defined "beginning", ie Blank Slate. Just my thoughts

[patm]

I think this whole Stampede Trail development will fail miserably.

Two reasons:

- Not enough population to support all of these bars. A city of 1.4 million who mostly live in the suburbs can have one, one and half "bar" districts. Calgary already has 17th and Stephen Avenue. Stampede Trail will only steal business from these places.

- Too freaking cold. The Flames are the only tenant that will bring a capacity crowd on a regular basis and the problem is that for almost the entire regular season it is winter weather here. People aren't going to leisurely bounce around bar hopping before and after the game when it's -25. You might have a few major places that fill up before the game (at the expense of others) but if you're dreaming of something like LA Live, not a chance. Same problem with the Deerfoot Mall renovations that are happening now.

Unless Stampede Trail is small and indoors it'll be a ghost town. If they throw together like 4 or 5 bars and restaurants and then have rooftop and patio access on the exterior and then somehow have an interior hallway that allows you to go from bar to bar without going into the winter weather, maybe it can work on a small scale.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Woulde definitely make sense to keep the Saddledome for the Olympics, we can have the figure skating in the Dome, and hockey in the new barn. Sadly the Corral is protected, because it would make sense to demolish that place and keep the Saddledome.

Isn't the plan to demolish the Corral as part of the BMO Centre expansion ?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by PPAR

Two questions
Is the plan to keep the Saddledome as an operational facility, and potentially related, is there any talk of how this development could tie into an Olympic bid?

While not discussed at present time, the future of the Saddledome should be viewed through the same lense as the current Edmonton Coliseum transformation project.

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

And afterwards, selectively retire interior parts of the dome to get it to a nice, well workable) 5-8000 person concert venue, unless the maintenance would be insane.

To recap the Edmonton experience, the City had to put money into Northlands in order to provide midterm financial stabilization (through a 2 year mortgage deferral option) while the future of the Coliseum is determined.

IIRC, the operating deficit incurred by Edmonton Northlands was 7-8 million per annum while the Coliseum is repurposed. I would expect the Stampede Board to look at the Edmonton experience and say "Hard NO" to the option to take ownership of a repurposed Saddledome.

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Would definitely make sense to keep the Saddledome for the Olympics, we can have the figure skating in the Dome, and hockey in the new barn. Sadly the Corral is protected, because it would make sense to demolish that place and keep the Saddledome.

An Olympic event is 9 years away in 2026, the earliest the Vic Park Arena could be operational is likely 6 years. So keeping the Saddledome operational for an Olympics is 3 years of financial support or about $25 to $30 million dollars in 2016 funds (using the Edmonton example as a base).

[MalcolmTucker]

While the operating subsidy would be annoying, it might be a price worth paying. The Calgary Jubilee receives an operating subsidy of about $3.8 million a year.

After the Olympics not needing to maintain an iceplant would help for costs.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by patm

I think this whole Stampede Trail development will fail miserably.

Two reasons:

- Not enough population to support all of these bars. A city of 1.4 million who mostly live in the suburbs can have one, one and half "bar" districts. Calgary already has 17th and Stephen Avenue. Stampede Trail will only steal business from these places.

WE have several bar districts (17ave, 4st, Stephen Ave, Kensington...). Whether Stampede tr. is successful will depend on the type of businesses that go in there, we can definitely support more areas.

- Too freaking cold. The Flames are the only tenant that will bring a capacity crowd on a regular basis and the problem is that for almost the entire regular season it is winter weather here. People aren't going to leisurely bounce around bar hopping before and after the game when it's -25. You might have a few major places that fill up before the game (at the expense of others) but if you're dreaming of something like LA Live, not a chance. Same problem with the Deerfoot Mall renovations that are happening now.

Disagree completely. Cold weather is just part of living in Calgary, people don't just hide inside when it's cold, they still go out and do stuff. If you build an entertainment area that is well served by places people like, then it will be a success. This too cold argument for everything in this city drives me nuts.

Unless Stampede Trail is small and indoors it'll be a ghost town. If they throw together like 4 or 5 bars and restaurants and then have rooftop and patio access on the exterior and then somehow have an interior hallway that allows you to go from bar to bar without going into the winter weather, maybe it can work on a small scale.

Why does it need to be indoors? 17th ave isn't indoors, Kensington isn't indoors, Stephen Ave isn't indoors. Do you really not go out if it's cold out? put on a damn coat and it will be fine.

Originally Posted by craner

Isn't the plan to demolish the Corral as part of the BMO Centre expansion ?

I think the Corral is protected, so it can't be demolished. The plans for expansion of BMO are towards Stampede Casino AFAIK.

[Bigtime]

Correct that there is still space for I believe two more halls in BMO heading towards the casino building. Those newest halls there are D & E, so I'd assume any new ones would be F & G.

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by patm

I think this whole Stampede Trail development will fail miserably.

Two reasons:

- Not enough population to support all of these bars. A city of 1.4 million who mostly live in the suburbs can have one, one and half "bar" districts. Calgary already has 17th and Stephen Avenue. Stampede Trail will only steal business from these places.

- Too freaking cold. The Flames are the only tenant that will bring a capacity crowd on a regular basis and the problem is that for almost the entire regular season it is winter weather here. People aren't going to leisurely bounce around bar hopping before and after the game when it's -25. You might have a few major places that fill up before the game (at the expense of others) but if you're dreaming of something like LA Live, not a chance. Same problem with the Deerfoot Mall renovations that are happening now.

Unless Stampede Trail is small and indoors it'll be a ghost town. If they throw together like 4 or 5 bars and restaurants and then have rooftop and patio access on the exterior and then somehow have an interior hallway that allows you to go from bar to bar without going into the winter weather, maybe it can work on a small scale.

To your first point, the redevelopment of this corridor (which would be more than just bars) can be sustained with more mixed-use development and residential towers. The is large potential to increase the population density in this area and that would help sustain the retail on a day to day basis. The Railtown lands, the Orchard, the growing East Village, multiple rental towers along Macleod Trail are all in the vicinity. Those other areas are sustained would not be affected to the magnitude you're suggesting.

To the second point, how many days is it actually that cold to the extent of going outside is not healthy? That's hyperbolic. It's part of living in Calgary, and retail districts survive. Asides from the Flames, the Stampede would be a huge draw for that corridor not to mention potential concerts, events at BMO, etc.

It will probably not be like LA Live but that doesn't mean it can't be a successful, vibrant entertainment district.

[The Fisher Account]

^^

LA Live isn't a great example. Mike Brown from CMLC actually commented in Council yesterday during his Victoria Park presentation that LA Live is usually dead when there are no events and that it is his groups job to ensure that doesn't happen here

[Fuzz]

I think one of the benefits of the Victoria Park location in the regard is it only really needs one or 2 public faces. The rest backs onto the Stampede grounds, so it doesn't need to be surrounded by an district, just the 2 sides.

[tomthumb2]

Will be interesting to see concepts/renders but at the pace this is going at - that could be quite a while.

Too bad the only player left out of all this are the Stamps. As a STH its really disappointing.

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

^^

LA Live isn't a great example. Mike Brown from CMLC actually commented in Council yesterday during his Victoria Park presentation that LA Live is usually dead when there are no events and that it is his groups job to ensure that doesn't happen here

Wow - if a huge city like LA has that problem, how can Calgary possibly tackle the same challenge. Maybe we do something like Nashville? Apparently the area around their arena is always hopping.