Winnipeg Construction IX

[emeraldeyes]

A few more conversions of this type, along with the new residential of True North Square, 300 Main and hopefully SkyCity just might be enough to save what remains of The Bay from retail oblivion.
Or not.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by emeraldeyes

A few more conversions of this type, along with the new residential of True North Square, 300 Main and hopefully SkyCity just might be enough to save what remains of The Bay from retail oblivion.
Or not.

I don't think the downtown Bay store is savable. Even under the most ideal market conditions that current building is far too large for Hudson's Bay and needs to find tenants for the upper floors. That isn't happening for a variety of reasons. This means the cost of maintain the building drag down the store. Worse the few floors that remain in use are horrible out dated and badly needing maintenance.

[biguc]

With its concrete facade and gunslit windows, medical arts will be easily defensible on the coming apocalypse.

Hopefully they come up with something nice for the corner of Graham's, anyway.

[tree]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I don't think the downtown Bay store is savable. Even under the most ideal market conditions that current building is far too large for Hudson's Bay and needs to find tenants for the upper floors. That isn't happening for a variety of reasons. This means the cost of maintain the building drag down the store. Worse the few floors that remain in use are horrible out dated and badly needing maintenance.

Could UW take over the unused floors?

[1ajs]

we need to keep focusing on creating most sustainability in our core heart of our city as this happens the bay and its building will survive fine

also why is there not a grocery store in portage place?

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

we need to keep focusing on creating most sustainability in our core heart of our city as this happens the bay and its building will survive fine

also why is there not a grocery store in portage place?

Why did The Bay/Zellers shut theirs down when it was such a money maker?

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Why did The Bay/Zellers shut theirs down when it was such a money maker?

I thought it closed when they changed to Target?

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Why did The Bay/Zellers shut theirs down when it was such a money maker?

because zellers got bought out by a international chane and it didnt meet their store model same reseaon the downtown cdn tire closed on notre dame
and the bay closed theirs cause they put zellers in there witch they owd at the time to split it off into another buisnes as it didnt fit the bays model it was a victim of buisnes plans

[Urban recluse]

I cannot wait to see what is in store for the Medical arts building's exterior.

[buzzg]

Seeing what Timbercreek did at 160 Smith I have high hopes we'll get a much nicer looking building in the end if this deal goes through. Hopefully they're encouraged to build out right to Graham in the future (as long as there's streetfront CRUs).

[Urban recluse]

I am counting on that.

[buzzg]

With the Fort/Graham bike lanes about to get underway, I'm curious on what peoples' thoughts are for St. Mary/York, since we know Portage isn't getting any and Graham is dangerous for bikes.

I personally think St. Mary and York could both function fine with 3 lanes since they're 1-ways, and just don't allow stopping during rush hours. A bike lane on York that comes almost from U of W and leads right into The Forks would be fantastic.

Really think Kennedy and Edmonton should be made 2-ways and/or add seperated bike lanes as well. Need good north-south routes at both ends of downtown. Still can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't put lanes in on Osborne (north of the bridge) when they just redid the whole street - there's so much room.

[MG922]

Originally Posted by buzzg

With the Fort/Graham bike lanes about to get underway, I'm curious on what peoples' thoughts are for St. Mary/York, since we know Portage isn't getting any and Graham is dangerous for bikes.

I personally think St. Mary and York could both function fine with 3 lanes since they're 1-ways, and just don't allow stopping during rush hours. A bike lane on York that comes almost from U of W and leads right into The Forks would be fantastic.

Really think Kennedy and Edmonton should be made 2-ways and/or add seperated bike lanes as well. Need good north-south routes at both ends of downtown. Still can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't put lanes in on Osborne (north of the bridge) when they just redid the whole street - there's so much room.

I love these ideas, thought about it a bunch myself. St Mary and York should have parking protected bike lanes (similar to Sherbrook). There's already enough room on St Mary

Garry street bike lanes will provided nice north/south connectivity on the east side of downtown, but there needs to be north/south connectivity on the west side too.

I would have loved to see bike lane infrastructure on Portage ave considering that there's been a big push to renew the asphalt and sidewalks for significant stretches of road. I don't get how the city can justify a 5 meter wide sidewalk, with no thought to cycling. A little bit of thought and design could allow cycling infrastructure on Portage from the West perimeter to at least the edge of downtown.

[MG922]

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.8855719,-..._mPNK3d0_PXcvF0gd6NDw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Do we really need sidewalks this wide? no one walks in and around the flower planters and trash cans and parking signs. Could move them all in line, add a protected bike lane between the parked cars and the sidewalk, and still have room on the sidewalk for walking and all the other things that need to be placed there.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by tree

Could UW take over the unused floors?

The U of W was pitched the vacant Bay building floors essentially as a "gift" and turned them down. With the science building completed and the theater program mostly moved to the old Salvation Army building the more recent changes have been focusing inward on their existing space and reallocations there. I could be wrong but it seems U of W is done with expansion for now, although the one block between their main campus and their science building would seem to be a prime target if the CBC would get out of the way.

Originally Posted by 1ajs

we need to keep focusing on creating most sustainability in our core heart of our city as this happens the bay and its building will survive fine

also why is there not a grocery store in portage place?

The challenge is Hudson's Bay has shifted their market position such that they really don't have place anywhere in the Winnipeg market. Overall I am actually surprised that they haven't shut down their downtown store, not due to a lack of customers but rather that it no longer fits their brand image.

Originally Posted by 1ajs

because zellers got bought out by a international chane and it didnt meet their store model same reseaon the downtown cdn tire closed on notre dame
and the bay closed theirs cause they put zellers in there witch they owd at the time to split it off into another buisnes as it didnt fit the bays model it was a victim of buisnes plans

The irony here is the Sak's is owned by the same company as Hudson's Bay and is actually opening high end food halls in Toronto and other Canadian cities.

In terms of the Canadian Tire on Notre Dame, it didn't really close but more shifted focus. It went from being a full line store to an automotive focused Parts Sources which is part of the same corporate family. Not sure the whole rational behind that chain but considering Canadian Tire operates on a model where corporate doesn't own stores, rather a store specific owner operates each location.

Originally Posted by buzzg

I personally think St. Mary and York could both function fine with 3 lanes since they're 1-ways, and just don't allow stopping during rush hours. A bike lane on York that comes almost from U of W and leads right into The Forks would be fantastic.

St Mary and York had similar volumes of traffic as Portage Ave. With the alternating one way streets crossing them you get a mix of both left and right turns. Also St Mary at Memorial and York at Main use all the existing lanes to support vehicle traffic making turns onto other streets. It would seem to be an extremely poor location for a bike lane.

Graham on the other hand used to be a four lane road from Main to Vaughan. They narrowed it in places and widened the sidewalks when they made it a transit way. Perhaps looking at how the existing right of way is used could better accommodate a separated and protected bike lane.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The challenge is Hudson's Bay has shifted their market position such that they really don't have place anywhere in the Winnipeg market. Overall I am actually surprised that they haven't shut down their downtown store, not due to a lack of customers but rather that it no longer fits their brand image.

What makes you say that they don't have a place in the Winnipeg market? Their suburban mall stores seem to be doing fairly well. Even the downtown store really only started to decline once Eaton's closed and Portage Avenue retail lost its critical mass.

[tree]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The U of W was pitched the vacant Bay building floors essentially as a "gift" and turned them down. With the science building completed and the theater program mostly moved to the old Salvation Army building the more recent changes have been focusing inward on their existing space and reallocations there. I could be wrong but it seems U of W is done with expansion for now, although the one block between their main campus and their science building would seem to be a prime target if the CBC would get out of the way.

Thanks I swear I had read it somewhere before. Still think it would be a good option for UW and makes for easier them to take over another floor or two if The Bay ever leaves.

Just don't want to see it filled with another place that closes at 6PM on weekdays.

[biguc]

St. Mary and York already have bike lanes, though not protected. They even put green thermoplastic paint down on one section of St Mary. If there's one problem with bike infrastructure in this city, it's that it's too concerned with moving bikes through, rather than with actually getting cyclists to destinations.

Presently, I could find a fairly safe bike route across town. But if I want to go somewhere on, say, Portage avenue, I'm forced off any kind of cycling network. The city still treats cycling like a leisure activity first, a means of commuting second, and a full time mode of transportation. For cycling infrastructure to work well, every high street should have bike lanes.

I propose a road diet for every street from Osborne to Selkrik that reduces lanes to 10 feet wide and reduces vehicular traffic to 3 lanes, with the center lane being a turn lane or direction-changing rush hour lane, depending on traffic volumes. This would still move cars but leave plenty of room for cyclists.



I think I've posted on here before about the Bay's capacity for residential conversion. In short, it's tremendous. It has 20 foot ceilings, allowing for 2 floor loft apartments. The building is large enough that with an atrium in the middle, it could fit hundreds of units. It could hold as many units as some of the recent highrise we've seen constructed downtown, but with larger, nicer units. It has potential.


As for The Bay being off brand, that's not wrong. It's been positioning itself as a high end store in international retail destinations. The Bay downtown is off brand--in part because it's shabby as fuck--but so are most locations across Canada.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by CoryB

In terms of the Canadian Tire on Notre Dame, it didn't really close but more shifted focus. It went from being a full line store to an automotive focused Parts Sources which is part of the same corporate family. Not sure the whole rational behind that chain but considering Canadian Tire operates on a model where corporate doesn't own stores, rather a store specific owner operates each location.

Canadian Tire owns the physical location and leases it out to the dealer. A lot of dealers start out with a small rural store and as the more established dealers retire, they will buy that store as its in a bigger location and then sell their store to an entry level dealer.

Apparently you can only have one store with the exception of BC where the whole province was sold as a whole to one group of investors to develop it.

In the case of the "downtown" store it was too small for the new format and was to be torn down and enlarged with parking added on land that Canadian Tire Corp had purchased to the east. Community activists convinced the city not to allow a demo permit for the existing houses on that land so the store closed (dealer moved to Polo Park) and sat vacant for some time while Canadian Tire looked at their legal options.

Eventually Canadian Tire sold the houses they bought and put a Parts Source there.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by tree

Thanks I swear I had read it somewhere before. Still think it would be a good option for UW and makes for easier them to take over another floor or two if The Bay ever leaves.

Just don't want to see it filled with another place that closes at 6PM on weekdays.

I think the challenge is the U of W would need to effectively increase their student population to justify adding the space. There are also some real costs to converting the Bay space to classroom use even if they space was "free". From a U of W perspective it just did not make sense which is why it didn't happen.

Now if you wanted the Bay to be converted to post-secondary classroom space a better fit would be to look at the U of M to move the faculty of architecture and school of art downtown and into the Bay space. Those programs both would be a natural fit for the downtown area. Sadly, as the provincial government has a policy in place that programs added to U of W, U of M and RRC will not compete with established programs at other schools in that group that is the only way to get those programs into downtown. Granted there is some wiggle room in the no-compete area so say U of W started up a degree program in mural painting it falls just outside the scope of the school of art. Either way its not likely to happen.

In terms of the downtown Bay being off-brand, Hudson's Bay is trying to move significant up market, think Sak's and Nordstrom's. The current downtown location is closer to Zeller's of old. Bridging that gap isn't a matter of new paint and shipping in some stock either as the high priced items have historically been harder sells in the Winnipeg market as a whole. At some point Hudson's Bay is going to need to do a hard look at what locations it operates and make some tough choices on the Winnipeg market.