PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Yep. Apologies and excuses ring hollow. Philly is failing in this regard. Period.

This is why Kenney is launching an initiative to deal with litter and waste management. Someone mentioned it early but several "experts" jumped in and deemed it pointless or too weak without reading — about it. But that tends to be the case with those who have strong opinions but don't have the time to actually understand what is and isn't going on. I went to a meeting last night were one of the Admin reps spoke about the initiative and some of the long term plans. They are serious and the final recommendations are due this summer. They will be looking at enforcement, waste pickup, waste production, ad campaigns, etc. And he made it clear that other cities (including NYC) have gone down this exact same path to improve cleanliness and increase recycling/reduce landfill dumping- it's just not been done here. So if you folks are really into benchmarking other cities to improve things here you SHOULD be heartened by the news that they are seriously working to implement such a strategy.


But I do love the dismissal of resident responsibility in all of this. The general refrain is "well citizens aren't going to clean up and thus the City should be cleaning up after everyone"- but don't charge extra for this!

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by 1487

But I do love the dismissal of resident responsibility in all of this. The general refrain is "well citizens aren't going to clean up and thus the City should be cleaning up after everyone"- but don't charge extra for this!

Literally no one said this. As a few people pointed out, many of the biggest problem areas are public properties.

Sometimes I swear you're actually a member of city council the way you go out of your way to excuse even the tiniest slight against our government.

But then i think that would be impossible. You seemingly love and respect everyone in city government but even the members of city council hate each other.

[McBane]

Chamber of Commerce is suing the city over the wage law: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politi...ce-to-sue-city-over-wage-equity-law.html

Now, how about the Chamber and city's biggest businesses unite around pro-business city council candidates? The same folks who are annoyed at the anti-business climate at City Hall continually donate money to these idiots' election campaigns. It's crazy that our wealthiest, business-heavy districts are represented by poverty pimps.

[br323206]

Well, I'll throw in my anecdote about litter. I recently had some friends visiting. Collectively, they have lived in several US cities including LA, Houston, Dallas, and Chicago. We spent our time walking around several neighborhoods: Center City (all over), West Philly (Penn Campus and Baltimore Ave), South Philly (Italian Market, Queen Village, Pennsport), Northern Liberties, Fishtown, and Kensington. All of them commented on how clean and litter-free the city was.

Now I know I live in Center City and get extra services from CCD, and I know we only visited "cool" neighborhoods on our little walking tour, but that is my general experience living here. It's remarkably clean for such a big, dense city. And I know lots of neighborhoods, especially some of the poorer ones, could use some help in this department. But like many issues on this forum I feel like it is being overblown.

[Philly Kid]

Originally Posted by br323206

Well, I'll throw in my anecdote about litter. I recently had some friends visiting. Collectively, they have lived in several US cities including LA, Houston, Dallas, and Chicago. We spent our time walking around several neighborhoods: Center City (all over), West Philly (Penn Campus and Baltimore Ave), South Philly (Italian Market, Queen Village, Pennsport), Northern Liberties, Fishtown, and Kensington. All of them commented on how clean and litter-free the city was.

Now I know I live in Center City and get extra services from CCD, and I know we only visited "cool" neighborhoods on our little walking tour, but that is my general experience living here. It's remarkably clean for such a big, dense city. And I know lots of neighborhoods, especially some of the poorer ones, could use some help in this department. But like many issues on this forum I feel like it is being overblown.

I actually agree with this. I think tremendous progress has been made and if you compare to other large metro areas I think we do pretty well. Obviously there is room for improvement but we are moving in the right direction.

Also, on a separate note I've also been encouraged by the tree planting program across the city. Several blocks that at past points were completely bare of any foliage now have small trees planted and it makes a HUGE difference towards neighborhood aesthetics.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Once the State required cities, including Philly, to enact recycling methods Philly has very actively lobbed against Bottle bills/deposit bills whenever they have been introduced at the State level. The City's point of view is that if cans especially were taken out of their recycling stream they would lose one of the primary sources of funding that gets used for the rest of recycling program.

Alternately, a scary amount of plastic bottles ends up in our water ways during storm runoff and the fact that people throw them down sewer drains constantly. Anything that doesn't end up in run-off, but ends up at a PHL recycling center is an overall net gain for the city.

I mean, the city's recycling facilities would still be receiving all the recyclable goods - instead of effectively only paying a truck and crew to drop them at the processing facility - they'd also be paying citizens.

Overall, it seems like a net-gain for the regions QOL.

[1487]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Literally no one said this. As a few people pointed out, many of the biggest problem areas are public properties.

Sometimes I swear you're actually a member of city council the way you go out of your way to excuse even the tiniest slight against our government.

But then i think that would be impossible. You seemingly love and respect everyone in city government but even the members of city council hate each other.

Absolutely nothing I said has anything to do with "loving" city council or city gov. They weren't even part of the discussion. I am simply stating what should be obvious facts- you will NEVER see full city mechanized sweeping on EVERY block in Philadelphia. We didn't even have anything close to that before Nutter axed what we did have. And even to get a substantially enhanced sweeper plan would require some new revenue stream. That's not a pro-government position, it's a reality based position.

And contrary to what you said several comments inferred that the failings are totally on the city government in terms of residential litter. At some point there has to be a greater sense of civic pride and responsibility- no matter how many regulations are passed and now many street sweeping machines we deploy. I've seen pics from the early 20th century where there were legions of workers actually walking shoulder to shoulder down Philly streets with brooms and cans. That level of staffing would never fly in today's world.

[1487]

Originally Posted by McBane

Chamber of Commerce is suing the city over the wage law: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politi...ce-to-sue-city-over-wage-equity-law.html

Now, how about the Chamber and city's biggest businesses unite around pro-business city council candidates? The same folks who are annoyed at the anti-business climate at City Hall continually donate money to these idiots' election campaigns. It's crazy that our wealthiest, business-heavy districts are represented by poverty pimps.

total waste of time and resources. How is THIS the biggest issue they face in terms of taxation and regulation? This is easier than doing any real work to improve things so I guess they jumped on this initiative.

[Yurkek]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Really nice work.

I may be the only person on the planet who is bothered by this, but: .main-nav a {cursor: pointer;}

Thanks! It's still work in progress and I wish I had more time to spend on fixing all the quirks.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Philly Kid

I actually agree with this. I think tremendous progress has been made and if you compare to other large metro areas I think we do pretty well. Obviously there is room for improvement but we are moving in the right direction.

Also, on a separate note I've also been encouraged by the tree planting program across the city. Several blocks that at past points were completely bare of any foliage now have small trees planted and it makes a HUGE difference towards neighborhood aesthetics.

CC and UC and most of the outlying areas are decently clean. Trashy areas tend to be where you have either a lot of renters, lots of abandoned homes/lots or lower income commercial strips with high pedestrian counts. Another issue are the highways which are controlled and "maintained" by PennDOT. Same applies to the Blvd medians. PennDOT does terrible job of cleaning shoulders of state highways, it's a disgrace.

My area is not a bad one for litter, but there are some who don't do a good job at gathering the trash that collects in their front yards. Trash naturally tends to be worse near bus stops.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by 1487

total waste of time and resources. How is THIS the biggest issue they face in terms of taxation and regulation? This is easier than doing any real work to improve things so I guess they jumped on this initiative.

I assume you're criticizing the Chamber of Commerce and Comcast. This regulation isn't a back breaker but it's the cumulative effect of one small onerous tax/regulation after another. They add up to a perception that Philadelphia is not business friendly. As I've said before, when Philadelphia has an economy like NYC, Boston, Seattle, DC, or SF, then we can start leading the progressive crusade. But when we're barely growing, it's time to shut up and focus on ways to bring in more businesses, not come up with more onerous rules, however small, in the name of social justice. I say good for the Chamber of Commerce! It's about time the city's business community stand up and stop being forced to underwrite every damn progressive pet project.

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by McBane

I assume you're criticizing the Chamber of Commerce and Comcast. This regulation isn't a back breaker but it's the cumulative effect of one small onerous tax/regulation after another. They add up to a perception that Philadelphia is not business friendly. As I've said before, when Philadelphia has an economy like NYC, Boston, Seattle, DC, or SF, then we can start leading the progressive crusade. But when we're barely growing, it's time to shut up and focus on ways to bring in more businesses, not come up with more onerous rules, however small, in the name of social justice. I say good for the Chamber of Commerce! It's about time the city's business community stand up and stop being forced to underwrite every damn progressive pet project.

Beautifully said. Fighting for these progressive ideals might earn Kenney and his buddies brownie points but it's not helping the city. Successful cities earn that luxury. Until then, we're not in such a dire strait that we have to fight for relatively mundane progressive policy that has the potential, if nothing else, to feed into Philly's reputation for business unfriendliness.

[Parkway]

More than anything their lawyers probably think they have a good argument to get the regulation thrown out. It's not my area so I can't really weigh in on what it might be but companies don't spend money for no reason.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by 1487

And contrary to what you said several comments inferred that the failings are totally on the city government in terms of residential litter. At some point there has to be a greater sense of civic pride and responsibility- no matter how many regulations are passed and now many street sweeping machines we deploy.

This is really the chicken or the egg argument. Our government — because the people who elect them don't even have the sense/decency to use a trash can. If we had more responsible citizens, they'd elect a more responsible and functional government.

[1487]

Originally Posted by McBane

I assume you're criticizing the Chamber of Commerce and Comcast. This regulation isn't a back breaker but it's the cumulative effect of one small onerous tax/regulation after another. They add up to a perception that Philadelphia is not business friendly. As I've said before, when Philadelphia has an economy like NYC, Boston, Seattle, DC, or SF, then we can start leading the progressive crusade. But when we're barely growing, it's time to shut up and focus on ways to bring in more businesses, not come up with more onerous rules, however small, in the name of social justice. I say good for the Chamber of Commerce! It's about time the city's business community stand up and stop being forced to underwrite every damn progressive pet project.

I agree with those that said the business community should work to get people elected who will do their bidding. This lawsuit is a waste of time and won't save one job or convince one company to move here. It's symbolic. Not sure what "barely" growing means, recent stats indicate 3% growth in jobs in 2016 which is pretty good for a non sunbelt city.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PHL10

This is really the chicken or the egg argument. Our government — because the people who elect them don't even have the sense/decency to use a trash can. If we had more responsible citizens, they'd elect a more responsible and functional government.

well unlike people who post here I actually think there are limits to what elected officials can do- and I don't know that they can stop people from littering. You could kick the bums out of office in next election and philly wouldn't be magically cleaner. Most people here (and elsewhere) don't vote and really could care less who is in office.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by 1487

there won't be any news until funding is in place. Kenney PROPOSED adding 200M in capital funding- until budget is passed and bonds are sold the money doesn't exist.

Sorry to read that . Not that anyone gives a — but , capping I-95 is so over due , I'm not sure it will gain any steam even before such
projects as Schuylkill Yards or Terminal Tower are well underway ...... and I think it should be capped from South St. to the BFB .

[Gonzo the Great]

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by 1487

well unlike people who post here I actually think there are limits to what elected officials can do- and I don't know that they can stop people from littering. You could kick the bums out of office in next election and philly wouldn't be magically cleaner. Most people here (and elsewhere) don't vote and really could care less who is in office.

You think street cleaning machines are magic?

I'm curious what part of Philadelphia you live in?

I'm pretty sure street cleaning would make Philadelphia "magically" cleaner.

It's not just about litter. But all the detritus that builds up because street cleaning doesn't happen in any form. All that salt etc that builds up over the course of winter? Where do you think that goes? The unswept leaves? Where do you think they go?

They break down and turn into dirt. The dirt builds up in the gutters because there is no street cleaning and then weeds sprout. Then the weeds act as convenient trash catchers and are on full display come June, July, and August.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by 1487

nothing comes without a cost. Universal, every block street sweeping twice a week sounds great. Good luck getting that out of existing budget. And let me know how well this works in the rowhouse neighborhoods with no rear driveways where parking is already a nightmare (I don't live in such an area BTW) and compliance with the no parking rules will be low. Everything cost money, making demands it easy- paying for it is another thing. Everyone wants more services, no one wants to come out of pocket for more services. I'd support a plastic bag tax to fund cleaning- but based on how soda tax has gone you can just imagine the industry and retailer push back to such an idea.

Literally who said it needs to be twice a week?

I'd settle for once a month.

Whose shill are you? You must be a low achieving low motivation employee of city government.