Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction - Page 393

Jebby · #**7841** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 5:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Last year. I don't have time to go through thread history to quote you on it.

I've never said that the M-Line isn't needed. I've been saying for years it's urgently needed and also that it should go all the way to UBC...

And the Canada Line is operating under capacity. It has a potential of 15,000pphpd with additional rolling stock and higher frequencies. It's nowhere near that today.

Migrant_Coconut · #**7842** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 5:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Last year. I don't have time to go through thread history to quote you on it.

Pretty sure you're confusing Jebby with libtard.

Bobert · #**7843** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 6:43 AM**

What I'm hearing from you guys is the opposite of what I wanted to hear lol.

When this project was proposed the first thing I imagined was a grand broadway-cityhall station linking up the two lines beautifully.

Seeing people cross an intersection to transfer would be extremely tacky. At least it'll get a scrambled intersection going, I hope?

VancouverOfTheFuture · #**7844** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 8:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobert

At least it'll get a scrambled intersection going, I hope?

unlikely. odds are there will be underground connections though.

Metro-One · #**7845** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 9:32 AM**

Chances are it will be a proper underground connection without leaving the fare paid zone, especially since the Canada Line Broadway Station has been pre-designed for this.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the city forced some stupid social engineering aspect (such as all activities must be on the surface) or some penny pinching occurred to stop this from happening.

The single station entrances and the lack of a proper underground connection at Granville to the Expo Line on the Canada Line were not just the result of value engineering, they were also done at the will of the cities (the idea that single entrances are safer and the idea that underground connections kill street pedestrian life....)

Reecemartin · #**7846** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 1:15 PM**

[Deleted]

aberdeen5698 · #**7847** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 2:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The single station entrances and the lack of a proper underground connection at Granville to the Expo Line on the Canada Line were not just the result of value engineering, they were also done at the will of the cities (the idea that single entrances are safer and the idea that underground connections kill street pedestrian life....)

All it's really done is to guarantee a steady stream of people passing through The Bay.

s211 · #**7848** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 2:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobert

At least it'll get a scrambled intersection going, I hope?

I hope not. That's a very wide intersection, and has some of the most lazy-assed, entitled pedestrians taking their sweet time to cross. As a frequent pedestrian in that area, it's embarrassing to watch.

WarrenC12 · #**7849** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 3:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

I hope not. That's a very wide intersection, and has some of the most lazy-assed, entitled pedestrians taking their sweet time to cross. As a frequent pedestrian in that area, it's embarrassing to watch.

Yes, pushing that traffic underground will help. The more people that can get to their desired corner without crossing at street level, the better.

And of course the connection to the Millennium line will mean less people coming up to grab a bus, etc.

Hooknose · #**7850** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 4:04 PM**

I got a bit of backroom gossip on the recent drilling for core samples on Broadway.

If the soil samples are suitable then the plan is for a TBM to bore all the way to Arbutus along Broadway.

If the soils are not suitable for a TBM then the plan is a cut and cover along 8th.

Amazing that this late into the procedure, they still are not sure.

Reecemartin · #**7851** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 4:43 PM**

[Deleted]

Alex Mackinnon · #**7852** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooknose

I got a bit of backroom gossip on the recent drilling for core samples on Broadway.

If the soil samples are suitable then the plan is for a TBM to bore all the way to Arbutus along Broadway.

If the soils are not suitable for a TBM then the plan is a cut and cover along 8th.

Amazing that this late into the procedure, they still are not sure.

The ground is always the fun unknown factor in tunnelling. It dictates what's a safe method and all the equipment for excavation.

Unless things break like they did on the Seattle SR99 tunnel, the bulk of problems in tunnelling are generally caused by ground conditions.

Alex Mackinnon · #**7853** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 5:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Curious, do we expect them to remove the TBMs at Arbutus or will they leave them and use them to continue further along?

They would probably either bury them permanently or remove them. Maintenance would need to be done after driving the tunnel to Arbutus. Nobody would want to start excavating a second phase of a tunnel drive using a machine that hasn't been significantly rebuilt since the first phase.

The cost/benefit of removing a $10M machine versus having the potential for a breakdown later is generally in favour of using fully rebuilt or new machines.

aberdeen5698 · #**7854** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 6:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

They would probably either bury them permanently or remove them. Maintenance would need to be done after driving the tunnel to Arbutus. Nobody would want to start excavating a second phase of a tunnel drive using a machine that hasn't been significantly rebuilt since the first phase.

Yeah, it's still challenging for me to wrap my mind around the idea that such a complex, expensive machine has basically the same status as wooden forms for pouring concrete - you make them, use them, and then throw them away.

WarrenC12 · #**7855** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 6:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooknose

I got a bit of backroom gossip on the recent drilling for core samples on Broadway.

If the soil samples are suitable then the plan is for a TBM to bore all the way to Arbutus along Broadway.

If the soils are not suitable for a TBM then the plan is a cut and cover along 8th.

Amazing that this late into the procedure, they still are not sure.

Cool thanks for the update.

Wouldn't those options mean significant differences in price and schedule?

Alex Mackinnon · #**7856** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 6:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yeah, it's still challenging for me to wrap my mind around the idea that such a complex, expensive machine has basically the same status as wooden forms for pouring concrete - you make them, use them, and then throw them away.

I think a drill bit would be a more relevant comparison.

s211 · #**7857** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 7:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hooknose

I got a bit of backroom gossip on the recent drilling for core samples on Broadway.

If the soil samples are suitable then the plan is for a TBM to bore all the way to Arbutus along Broadway.

If the soils are not suitable for a TBM then the plan is a cut and cover along 8th.
Amazing that this late into the procedure, they still are not sure.

Wait, what? Is that a late April Fool joke? Cut and cover along 8th?

VancouverOfTheFuture · #**7858** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 10:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

Wait, what? Is that a late April Fool joke? Cut and cover along 8th?

10th ave being the busiest E/W route for bikes?

officedweller · #**7859** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 11:07 PM**

Cut and Cover under 8th Ave doesn't make sense.
There's a GVRD Trunk Sewer under 8th Ave. along Central Broadway - it's called the "Eighth Ave. Interceptor".

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&e...kzM0ZGcSOqndQ42Eg&bvm=bv.151426398,d.cGc

That's why 10th Ave. is the favourite for cut and cover.

Here is a map of the GVRD Trunk Sewers in the area:

http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/l...tions/2015LWMPBiennialReport-Summary.pdf

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&e...Kg0u1rxiJ-6qAMJXQ&bvm=bv.151426398,d.cGc

jsbertram · #**7860** Posted **Apr 5, 2017, 11:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yeah, it's still challenging for me to wrap my mind around the idea that such a complex, expensive machine has basically the same status as wooden forms for pouring concrete - you make them, use them, and then throw them away.

TBMs are rarely "thrown away" after a project because they are expensive to build.

They are usually dismantled at the extraction pit and shipped to a local storage yard where the owner has all the parts inspected, and where necessary repaired or reconditioned before the TBM is containerized and shipped off to the next project on its schedule.

It's next project may be across the city, across the province, across the country, across the continent, or across the ocean.

Scheduled projects for these machines can be assigned years in the future, and are constantly being adjusted as future projects arise (or flounder) with the changing political winds.