Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[fenwick16]

It is good to see it progressing MonctonRad.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

This was posted in the Halifax local forum by q12. Although this proposal is for a small temporary stadium, the promoters aren't asking for money from the city or province, just an agreement to allow a temporary stadium for 3 years. This site is called the Wanderers Grounds, which at one time, many years ago, was the site of a wooden grandstand for various sports. It is adjacent to Citadel Hill and the Public Gardens, two of the most popular attractions in the city (among many attractions).

This will undoubtedly draw opposition from the vocal minority in Halifax who are against almost all change in Halifax. However, if it goes ahead, I believe that this will be a very popular location for a stadium and eventually could lead to a more permanent, larger stadium.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This was posted in the Halifax local forum by q12. Although this proposal is for a small temporary stadium, the promoters aren't asking for money from the city or province, just an agreement to allow a temporary stadium for 3 years. This site is called the Wanderers Grounds, which at one time, many years ago, was the site of a wooden grandstand for various sports. It is adjacent to Citadel Hill and the Public Gardens, two of the most popular attractions in the city (among many attractions).

This will undoubtedly draw opposition from the vocal minority in Halifax who are against almost all change in Halifax. However, if it goes ahead, I believe that this will be a very popular location for a stadium and eventually could lead to a more permanent, larger stadium.

I've always like that spot for a CFL stadium. It would be a tight fit but you could shoehorn one in with the right orientation/design.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Here are another few interior photos of the new downtown Moncton events centre (courtesy of the Moncton Times & Transcript).

These photos show the east side of the arena section. On this side, the upper bowl section is partially replaced by one level of corporate boxes (16), and a second level press box.

This is looking good, MonctonRad. (oops, double post)

[SteelTown]

Making Hamilton's FirstOntario Centre 'NHL-ready' would cost $250M
City staff recommend against large-scale renovation to the city's signature events venue

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/m...ntre-nhl-ready-would-cost-250m-1.4046406

A new study pegs the cost of renovating the FirstOntario Centre to an "NHL-ready" point at $252 million, but city staff say there are other much more urgent budget issues to deal with instead.

The renovation one of two options outlined in a new study of the city's signature hockey and events venue, scheduled to be presented to city councillors next Wednesday.

That NHL-ready option consists of a "complete transformation" of the 32-year-old, 17,000-seat building complex.

The other option costs $68 million and would be a "partial upgrade" and add modern boxes and concessions to the lower bowl.

City staff say they don't recommend pursuing either option.

"Based on the cost of the proposed renovations and the uncertainty of whether Hamilton could attract a tenant that could fully utilize a modern 18,000 seat arena, staff recommends that the city does not move forward with either renovation option at this point in time," a report from city finance staff states.

That recommendation is likely to go over well with some councillors.

Before even seeing the report, Coun. Sam Merulla said earlier this month the issue "shouldn't even be on the back burner."

"You know that drawer at the bottom of the stove that nobody uses? That's where it belongs."

Currently the city sets aside $800,000 a year for upgrades to the arena, the convention centre and the concert hall — "prioritizing capital needs that relate to health and safety and legislative compliance." It also has set aside another $100,000 for the concert hall for the next four years.

Rejecting either or both of these renovation options doesn't change that, the report states.

The Canadian Hockey League rejected Hamilton's recent Memorial Cup bid this year partly because of problems with the arena.


This re-imagination of the exterior of First Ontario Centre that is part of a consultants report on how to upgrade the aging arena. (BBB Architects)

[esquire]

^ What's the point of spending the coin to upgrade to NHL standards when there is no actual need to? I mean, it's one thing to spend $250M when there is a NHL team owner holding a gun to your head, but in this case, even with the expenditure it'll still be the same mix of OHL games and concerts.\

FWIW the rendering looks great, even if it's only a concept.

[HomeInMyShoes]

It might be useful for Hamilton, but it seems odd. 250million is a lot of money. Heck you could build a CFL stadium for that (zing...), but Hamilton has this not totally misguided belief that the NHL under the current ownership structure is going to somehow want to come back to Canada. They had a great chance to do that in Quebec and balked at it. Hamilton would just be another bargaining chip for the NHL to stick it to Arizona, and Carolina and maybe even Florida.

Save your money, be ready for when the Bettman years are over, but putting 250 into the stadium now, instead of investing it for the future to replace the stadium in fifteen years when the NHL climate has potentially changed with respect to the current norm for franchise location makes a lot more sense to me.

I don't believe the stadium is the reason Hamilton lost the bid for the Memorial Cup. I think they lost to a bid that was really well done and that contained a lot of nostalgia and other reasons to support it besides the quality of venue. The Brandt Centre is fine, but it is not a dynamic arena by any stretch.

[esquire]

^ Exactly. Surely Hamilton has learned that building a NHL rink on spec is not really a sure fire way to get a team. Save the cash until a franchise owner tells you it's go time. What's the point of spending big now such that if they get a NHL team 15 years from now, they have to renovate all over again, or rebuild?

[blueandgoldguy]

A good compromise would be the $70 option to refurbish the lower bowl to higher standards. With the new arena management team, Hamilton has been drawing more concerts these past couple years and that should continue into the future. Many concerts only use the lower bowl of arenas as many acts typically draw in the 5 - 8000 range. Add in the 36 or so games of the junior team and that would be a reasonable investment for the building.

Leave the possibility of a further renovation to make the building NHL-worthy as an option in the future with the condition that the NHL has to 100% be coming to town. Renos could always take place over 2 or 3 years while the team is playing there. Of course, those renos should really be the responsibility of private ownership as a team in Hamilton would probably be one of the top 5 - 7 revenue teams in the entire NHL.

I don't think it is so much Bettman that is against a team in Hamilton as it is the influence MLSE and to a lesser degree Buffalo have with the BOG. They would need to determine what kind of territorial fees a hypothetical Hamilton team would have to pay for an NHL team as they are within the boundaries of those two franchises. Another factor is the owner of Boston Bruins who apparently holds quite a bit of sway with the BOG and is thought to not be too enamored with any additional Canadian teams.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

I don't think it is so much Bettman that is against a team in Hamilton as it is the influence MLSE and to a lesser degree Buffalo have with the BOG. They would need to determine what kind of territorial fees a hypothetical Hamilton team would have to pay for an NHL team as they are within the boundaries of those two franchises. Another factor is the owner of Boston Bruins who apparently holds quite a bit of sway with the BOG and is thought to not be too enamored with any additional Canadian teams.

What do the Bruins care? Hamilton is 800 km away. Quebec City is 600 km.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by wave46

What do the Bruins care? Hamilton is 800 km away. Quebec City is 600 km.

Boston cares because it is stuck in the northeast, literally surrounded by Canadian teams. In most divisional alignments based on geography, they would be stuck in a division with a preponderance of Canadian teams - not good for fan interest and the bottom line...........

[Jagators63]

Hamilton will never ever have an NHL team because Buffalo will object to this plan. end of story.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Jagators63

Hamilton will never ever have an NHL team because Buffalo will object to this plan. end of story.

It seems odd though that a team in one nation can block the aspirations of a city in another nation to also have a team in the same league. I guess international boundaries count for nothing.........

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Jagators63

Hamilton will never ever have an NHL team because Buffalo will object to this plan. end of story.

It also seems strange that a city that has been in decline (Buffalo) would stop a region (Southern Ontario) from getting a team. Although the arena would be in Hamilton, the team would have a very strong following from West GTA, K/W, London, Niagara, etc. It's more like the Leafs would do their best to block this team.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

It also seems strange that a city that has been in decline (Buffalo) would stop a region (Southern Ontario) from getting a team. Although the arena would be in Hamilton, the team would have a very strong following from West GTA, K/W, London, Niagara, etc. It's more like the Leafs would do their best to block this team.

Clearly both the Leafs and Sabres stand to lose if there's a new Hamilton team... I'd argue that the Sabres probably have more at stake since their market is a lot shallower than the Leafs' is. They'd probably really miss the walkup crowds from the Hamilton-Niagara area.

It stinks for Hamilton, but I don't see how they can overcome the major hurdle of having two neighbours adamantly opposed to a new team in their market.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by esquire

It stinks for Hamilton, but I don't see how they can overcome the major hurdle of having two neighbours adamantly opposed to a new team in their market.

$omeone $mart will $ettle the $ituation with a $olution

[esquire]

^ If it made financial sense to pay off the owners of the Sabres and Leafs to clear a path for a NHL team in Hamilton, wouldn't it have happened already? I know pro sports are in a bit of a bubble phase right now, but the cost is likely rising substantially by the year.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ If it made financial sense to pay off the owners of the Sabres and Leafs to clear a path for a NHL team in Hamilton, wouldn't it have happened already? I know pro sports are in a bit of a bubble phase right now, but the cost is likely rising substantially by the year.

Refer to Balsillie, Jim

[esquire]

^ A failed effort... how does that demonstrate overcoming this significant hurdle?

[Horus]

^ It doesn't. But it emphasizes that it is not the only, or first hurdle to be overcome. The whole territorial dispute or reparations point is moot unless there has been an approval by the league to even set up shop in Hamilton in the first place. Other than his enthusiasm that seemingly rubbed the wrong way at NHL HQ, Balsillie was an ideal owner for the league at the time.

If the league wants a team in Hamilton, or elsewhere in the GTA, it will put one there, regardless of the objections of Toronto and/or Buffalo. There will be a way. The Colorado Rockies were moved into New York's "territory" in East Rutherford. The Anaheim Ducks were created into LA's "territory". I'm sure the Rangers and Kings were paid but a fraction of the potential future value of retaining exclusivity over those markets, but a figure was negotiated and the deals done because the NHL wanted it to.

If there is a financial case to be made that a team in Hamilton is in the league's best interest, they will find a path to make it happen