YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Where to even start.

YVR moving DEL to year round would not at all stop the ME3. Why in the world would it?

Secondly YVR already flies to NGO and KIN (ITM is a completely domestic airport, KIN is the international airport serving Osaka).

IMO MEL and one of the big SE Asian airports will likely happen in the next 12-18 months. Other than that I doubt CTS, KUL or PPT will happen any time soon, but I'd love to be wrong.

I thought the ME3 wanted in, to get a slice of the YVR - DEL action. I thought that was their prime reason for wanting to come here, (although they'll never get entry, it seems)

[gillty]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Where to even start.

YVR moving DEL to year round would not at all stop the ME3. Why in the world would it?

Secondly YVR already flies to NGO and KIN (ITM is a completely domestic airport, KIN is the international airport serving Osaka).

IMO MEL and one of the big SE Asian airports will likely happen in the next 12-18 months. Other than that I doubt CTS, KUL or PPT will happen any time soon, but I'd love to be wrong.

Kansai International is KIX KIN is Kingston, Jamaica?

I wish ITM still had international flights, much better location.

I hope Rogue's NGO route can make it to year-round status in the next few years. Nagoya is not my favourite city, but NGO seems underserved from NA.

[Johnny Aussie]

YVR-BOS is targeting the significant O&D market (summer cruise season) and Australia transfers.

Don't forget this is not a new route, it's a resumption of a former CP route.

This leaves MIA/FLL as the largest unserved direct transborder market from YVR.... technically MIA/FLL was already larger than BOS, but split between the two as such a different market really.

This latest move by Air Canada will push the daily YVR-transborder tally past 90!

The monotony of some posters can be tiresome... the future is bright for YVR... do some yoga and all will be fine.

[SFUVancouver]

Excited to see the (resumption of) service between YVR and Boston. The cruise ship demand is significant and just goes to show the ripple effect of each new (or renewed) ship that is based in Vancouver. For whatever reason, seasonal service doesn't get the respect that I think it deserves. Matching supply to demand is airline business 101 and seasonality is inherent to most segments of tourism. Boston is inherently different than seasonal sun destinations and, in time, there will absolutely be enough traffic to sustain year-round, and even daily service, between YVR and BOS.

I think that BOS will go year-round when the C-Series and 737Max aircraft start entering the Air Canada fleet, which will allow them to downgauge and upgauge, respectively, the aircraft to suit the season. Entry into service of those aircraft will also likely tip the balance in favour of MIA and/or FLL being added to the network. Call me overly confident in the power of fleet renewal, but those are going to be game-changing aircraft for Air Canada's domestic transborder business, particularly the C-Series.

The Australian connecting traffic is interesting and not something that would have come to mind for me. I would have thought that BOS passengers would more likely fly through LAX or SFO to Australia and that links to Asia would be the next highest driver after tourism. I guess the direct link to Brisbane might be a plus in favour of flying BOS-YVR(-BNE). That would save a step from BOS-LAX/SFO-SYD-BNE.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Excited to see the (resumption of) service between YVR and Boston. .............

The Australian connecting traffic is interesting and not something that would have come to mind for me. I would have thought that BOS passengers would more likely fly through LAX or SFO to Australia and that links to Asia would be the next highest driver after tourism. I guess the direct link to Brisbane might be a plus in favour of flying BOS-YVR(-BNE). That would save a step from BOS-LAX/SFO-SYD-BNE.

BOS>YVR>BNE is only 100 miles longer than BOS>SFO>BNE. Surprisingly, going through LAX is 4 miles longer than through SFO. Curvature of the Earth, quoi?

[LeftCoaster]

BOS BNE: - 9,766 mi

BOS LAX: 2,611 mi
LAX BNE: 7,161 mi
TOTAL: 9,773 mi (+0.1%)

BOS SFO: 2,704 mi
SFO BNE: 7,063 mi
TOTAL: 9,767 mi (+0.0%)

BOS YVR: 2,514 mi
YVR BNE: 7,351 mi
TOTAL: 9,864 mi (+1.0%)

They are all decent options, and it's a similar calculation to SYD or eventually MEL

Ultimately neither YVR nor BOS are great transit points for each other except in very specific circumstances like BOS-Australia. I think that the population and economic growth in both cities will warrant a year round O&D service soon and this AC service is a tester.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

This latest move by Air Canada will push the daily YVR-transborder tally past 90!

This one is a bit tougher to keep track of vs the widebody chart that is more stable, but I think it's pretty accurate for the most part as I'm showing 91 daily transborder departures.

Also note the two missing hubs I recently got to strike out with Delta's upping of ATL to 6x PW and the new BOS service. Those were satisfying!

[Johnny Aussie]

^ agree... it changes almost every week!

However some changes to note.

UA frequencies you've used are last summer's and equipment has changed greatly:
EWR is mainly 739 (daily only not 9 weekly)
SFO 3 of 5 daily now 739 (5 daily only not 36 weekly)
IAH now 73G and 319/320
DEN 320 and 738 for mainline
ORD 4 daily only (not 29 weekly) equipment varies greatly

AC:
ORD now a 319
LAX and SFO also see some 319 action
Missing HNL and OGG

AA:
PHX only 2 daily both 738s
LAX both E75s. The 319 is May only

DL:
SEA a mixed bag but mainly CR7s
SLC one of two daily now a mainline 319 the other is a CR7

WS:
SFO now two daily
LAS is 16 weekly
LAX is 20 weekly
Missing HNL and OGG

AS:
SEA is 5 daily - 2 mainline 739 and 3 Horizon DH4

Missing hubs:
UA does fly to IAD if only 1 PW
DL does fly to DTW even if just 2 PW and CVG being de-hubbed

[trofirhen]

I wonder what all this would have been like back in, say 1997 .....
What did YVR have then that was transborder nonstop? Anybody know?
What has happened over the last 20 years ...

[LeftCoaster]

Thanks Johnny, I knew most of it was S16, but I hadn't seen any updates on service/equipment so I figured it hadn't changed.

Looks like I have some work to do on the plane!

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Thanks Johnny, I knew most of it was S16, but I hadn't seen any updates on service/equipment so I figured it hadn't changed.

Looks like I have some work to do on the plane!

Sure! Also EWR is only a 788 for the summer and SFO only 4 daily on AC. In any event good effort.

Some interesting summer 2017 facts...

AC will have 15 daily flights to California this summer and a total of 35 daily transborder ops.
Up to 6 flights per day to the US eastern seaboard.
DL really closing the gap with UA to be the #1 US Carrier for frequencies per week.
AS down to only 7 flights per day.

YVR total transborder should reach over 5.8 million in 2017.... that's just huge.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Missing hubs:
UA does fly to IAD if only 1 PW
DL does fly to DTW even if just 2 PW and CVG being de-hubbed

OK so I've updated my list per your changes. Transborder growth is MUCH larger than I thought it was. Compared to my list last year there is a 11.22% Growth in capacity in S17. about 62% of that is AC/UA, 22.7% is WJ/AS and the remaining 17% is DL and a 2% drop by AA.

When did WestJet bump YVR transborder up? I didn't see anything on that. Also, I had AA as a 319 past May since word on A.Net was that it may stay that way they just hadn't loaded the schedules yet. I've revised it back down but hopefully that sticks.

Finally I don't think a 1 or 2 per week service summer only really counts as connecting to a hub. Even the summer service to BOS and ATL only kinda counts which is why they're still on the list, just struck out. When we get year round daily or 5-6xPW service then I'll take em off the list entirely.

Anyway here's the updated sheet:

[osirisboy]

United flies to Washington. So shouldn't that be taken off of the missing hubs list ?

Edit. I just saw your answer in your post. Sorry. is Washington seasonal?

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

United flies to Washington. So shouldn't that be taken off of the missing hubs list ?

Edit. I just saw your answer in your post. Sorry. is Washington seasonal?

No prob, it's a fair comment and really just my opinion, but I really don't think 1x PW summer seasonal really helps anyone but a few cruise ship passengers and people whose schedule magically lines up with the one or two flights per week.

I really do think the C series will open up a lot of these hubs for YVR, since both Delta and AC are getting the plane I would imagine it would fit well for DC, Boston, Detroit and a few others like Miami and making Atlanta year round.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

DL really closing the gap with UA to be the #1 US Carrier for frequencies per week.

What's really crazy is Delta has more seats per week peak summer to the continental US than Westjet.

DL: 10,770 Vs WS: 10,416.

[LeftCoaster]

Also, looks like Korean will be putting the 787-900 in the YVR route in place of the 777-200, at least for part of spring 2018. Weird dates to be announcing now so I'm guessing this is the start of a permanent a change from the 772 to 789 for winter flying.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airl...long-haul-service-updates-as-of-19mar17/

Korean's dreamliner seems to be better fitted out for flying to YVR, with more seats overall, still 3 class, but less premium heavy. Seems to be an optimal fit out for the type of passenger mix flying Seoul-Vancouver.

[jacobparry]

Fun thread thought experiment: what's the longest flight in the world by change in latitude? Which flight has the greatest distance between it's northern and southern points?

I thought Vancouver-Sydney might be the winner (49.28N to 33.86S = 83.14), but it looks like Amsterdam to Cape Town has a greater change in latitude (33.92+52.37 = 86.29). My educated guess is that Vancouver-Sydney is the seventh or eighth longest (after various combos of service from Frankfurt/Amsterdam/London/Paris to Buenos Aires/Cape Town)

That said, if Vancouver to Melbourne service were to launch, it would be the longest flight in the world by change in latitude (49.28N to 37.81S = 87.09), and would probably hold the title until service between Europe-Melbourne.

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Also, looks like Korean will be putting the 787-900 in the YVR route in place of the 777-200, at least for part of spring 2018. Weird dates to be announcing now so I'm guessing this is the start of a permanent a change from the 772 to 789 for winter flying.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airl...long-haul-service-updates-as-of-19mar17/

Korean's dreamliner seems to be better fitted out for flying to YVR, with more seats overall, still 3 class, but less premium heavy. Seems to be an optimal fit out for the type of passenger mix flying Seoul-Vancouver.

Great. All KE planes more or less have the same cabin equipment, so from a comfort standpoint the 787 will actually be more comfortable ride than the 777. We're going to be a 787/A350 hub, and I really like that from a passenger experience standpoint.

[Johnny Aussie]

Air China now showing double daily again for the period late June right through the end of July.

CA997/998 showing daily 773.

How this is possible I have no idea based on the current allotment. I will enquire.

[libtard]

YVR has non stop flights to DTW?