PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Damn, you're a dream killer. LOL. I'm just happy we're not in the negative zone. A little growth is better than no growth, but at least we didn't have a major exodus. Ha!

Only reason was because births outweighed deaths. Not very exciting news. I believe that attracting news business's and Public schools continue to be the biggest issues.

[Urbanthusiat]

I' not terribly worried about having a small rate of population growth for now. It's my opinion that the demand fundamentals are solid for sustained, steady, future growth. Philadelphia is great to me because it has a lot in common with industrial cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and, Detroit - which have experienced significant decline - but also it has a lot in common with the cosmopolitan/coastal cities like NYC, Boston, and DC - which have experienced fantastic growth. Philadelphia doesn't grow much because it's somewhere in between, but trending towards cosmopolitan/coastal. It's suburbs on the other hand have experience sunbelt-like growth (in the post war era). It certainly accounts for the citiy's identity crisis,
but gives the city an amazing affordability advantage.

Also, I think the region is seeing higher quality growth over sunbelt cities. It seems to me that the unemployed former factory worker on disability is moving out and heading for the sunbelt where it's much cheaper, and they are being replaced by immigrants, skilled millennials, and the empty nester professionals from the suburbs. I'll bet on the latter being a better driver of growth. It explains why retail/commercial growth has been greater than population growth.

Looking forward, Comcast II (and eventually Comcast III), FMC tower, Schuylkill Yards, Penn's Pennovation center and ever-continuing hospital expansion, the new Science Center building, Temple seems to be always expanding now, the Port expansion, Camden's waterfront development, northeastern corridor high speed rail expansion- I could go on and on - are going to be pushing the economy forward for years to come.

I wouldn't worry about it.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

Philly can try to make itself more competitive with 2) by trying to get a bigger share of other industries besides "meds and eds" but that's of course easier said than done.

I think we need to continually work on our global brand too. Businesses are pretty shallow and make more decisions than you think based simply on the cool factor.

Now don't get me wrong, accountants aren't doing this, but I work in several creative industries and this is especially true. There are literally companies opening satellite offices in places like Austin and Brooklyn merely because they are seen as hip and it's cool to put on their masthead. Brooklyn 25 years ago was seen as an urban failure - a cautionary tale. Now it's the center of the universe.

Philly needs to keep improving, do good work, keep its head down and our global rep will change and suddenly we'll find ourselves on more and more of these short lists for new companies/relocations/etc.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Boku

Apparently Philly only grew by 2900 people. Meanwhile, Maricopa County added 222 retirees per day in 2016.

Fixed it for you.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by br323206

Put me in the camp of people who like 500 Walnut. It's much more exciting than most of the luxury buildings being built in NYC. I wish it were a little taller but I like the design and I think it provides a nice juxtaposition to the surrounding buildings. I love the Bridge too, but I think its location is part of its appeal architecturally--being next to the bridge. It would feel off-putting in 500 Walnut's location I think.

I also like 500 Walnut. Its shape is more interesting than most of the glass boxes we've seen recently go up. It doesn't suffer from an identity crises (traditional brick base with a modern glass tower) and is completely free of cheap looking paneling. Most of all, I like how in one snapshot, you get buildings that span a wide range of architectural styles and eras.

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Looking forward, Comcast II (and eventually Comcast III), FMC tower, Schuylkill Yards, Penn's Pennovation center and ever-continuing hospital expansion, the new Science Center building, Temple seems to be always expanding now, the Port expansion, Camden's waterfront development, northeastern corridor high speed rail expansion- I could go on and on - are going to be pushing the economy forward for years to come.

Your original post makes some good points but you got the order wrong here. The economy and market as a whole, both of which need to improve in Philly, are what push these projects forward, rather than the other way around.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Also, I think the region is seeing higher quality growth over sunbelt cities. It seems to me that the unemployed former factory worker on disability is moving out and heading for the sunbelt where it's much cheaper, and they are being replaced by immigrants, skilled millennials, and the empty nester professionals from the suburbs. I'll bet on the latter being a better driver of growth. It explains why retail/commercial growth has been greater than population growth.

Great point. Often overlooked in these puff pieces is the fact that most of the growth in the sunbelt is from retirees and low-skilled workers. High-skilled workers gravitate toward the coasts and we're in a great position to poach companies and talent from NYC.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

I' not terribly worried about having a small rate of population growth for now. It's my opinion that the demand fundamentals are solid for sustained, steady, future growth. Philadelphia is great to me because it has a lot in common with industrial cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and, Detroit - which have experienced significant decline - but also it has a lot in common with the cosmopolitan/coastal cities like NYC, Boston, and DC - which have experienced fantastic growth. Philadelphia doesn't grow much because it's somewhere in between, but trending towards cosmopolitan/coastal. It's suburbs on the other hand have experience sunbelt-like growth (in the post war era). It certainly accounts for the citiy's identity crisis,
but gives the city an amazing affordability advantage.

Also, I think the region is seeing higher quality growth over sunbelt cities. It seems to me that the unemployed former factory worker on disability is moving out and heading for the sunbelt where it's much cheaper, and they are being replaced by immigrants, skilled millennials, and the empty nester professionals from the suburbs. I'll bet on the latter being a better driver of growth. It explains why retail/commercial growth has been greater than population growth.

Looking forward, Comcast II (and eventually Comcast III), FMC tower, Schuylkill Yards, Penn's Pennovation center and ever continuing hospital expansion, the new Science Center building, Temple seems to be always expanding now, the Port expansion, Camden's waterfront development, northeastern corridor high speed rail expansion- I could go on and on - are going to be pushing the economy forward for years to come.

I wouldn't worry about it.

I don't mean to step on your birthday glitter but , the industrial cities boat seems to have left the building . Personally I don't see anything in the western hemisphere holding a
candle to NYC anytime in my life time .... or better yet , in your life time . Dc is DC because the nations capital was moved there and most of our " trustworthy politicians " move
there too . You can correct me if I'm wrong but ( as much as I like Boston ) , bean town was never a cosmopolitan center .

Pittsburgh , Cleveland and Detroit , for the most part depended on one commodity , steel . So when the genius wall street moguls convinced those trustworthy politicians in DC
that is was better to import steel products from countries with lower overhead , i.e. wages , then places like the afore mentioned cities took it on the chin .
If Philly is going to become something better than what it is now , a shit load more work and appeal is going to have to make it's presents felt .

Oh , and by the way , if your 10 , you might live long enough to see all those pretty renderings and elevation sketches become reality , however I would not count on what you
see today , becoming a reality 30 / 40 years down the road .

PS ; I wouldn't count on any Comcast III tomorrow , next year or ever ...... THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it .

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

We're not number 5 anymore, and won't make the playoffs again. It's over.

Is it official we're no longer 5?

[summersm343]

Century-old Manayunk paper plant to close, nearly 150 to lose jobs

PaperWorks Industries Inc., a paperboard packaging manufacturer, has scheduled to shutter its facility at 5000 Flat Rock Road in the Manayunk neighborhood of Philadelphia and lay off 147 people.

Its “legendary” Philadelphia plant “represents more than 200 years of papermaking history. The world’s largest papermaking plant in the 1860s, this mill continues to be an industry leader, currently operating the widest paper machine in the world,” according to a section on the company’s history on its website. That history comes to an end in April when the facility becomes a memory.

“They are in the early stages of getting their arms around a disposition program,” Primavera said. “While it is sad for the people who are losing their jobs, if you get the right reuse program, you can imagine the job creation opportunity. It could be something like a mini Navy Yard. Part of the opportunity of situations like this is you rediscover land and, like the Navy Yard, this will be a real opportunity for someone to come in and literally create hundreds of jobs.”

The company doesn’t have a timeframe for when it might sell the property and is focusing on closure, he said.

Over the years, these types of properties throughout the region have been bought by developers or even other manufacturers.

For example, a former Nabisco and Mondelēz International factory at 12000 Roosevelt Blvd. in Northeast Philadelphia was bought last year by Provco Group, a developer, for $10.2 million. Preliminary plans involve transforming into a mixed-use development. Regency Furniture bought a former Deb Shops warehouse that totals 280,000 square feet at 9401 Blue Grass Road for $8.7 million. Atkore International sold its 280,000-square-foot building on 17 acres at 13500 Norcom Road for $3 million. Bemis Healthcare Packaging is reportedly selling its 220,000-square-foot plant at 9800 Bustleton Ave. Broder Bros. has put up for sale its property at 2951 Grant Ave. It consists of three connected buildings that total 365,000 square feet on 12 acres.

“Buildings like these can be adaptively reused for other businesses but, because of the location of this one, I could see some other redevelopment ideas from other users and developers,” said Pat Green, a broker with CBRE Inc., who has been involved in sales of similar properties.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...n-manayunk-to-close-nearly-150-will.html

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Gonzo the Great

I don't mean to step on your birthday glitter but , the industrial cities boat seems to have left the building . Personally I don't see anything in the western hemisphere holding a
candle to NYC anytime in my life time .... or better yet , in your life time . Dc is DC because the nations capital was moved there and most of our " trustworthy politicians " move
there too . You can correct me if I'm wrong but ( as much as I like Boston ) , bean town was never a cosmopolitan center .

Pittsburgh , Cleveland and Detroit , for the most part depended on one commodity , steel . So when the genius wall street moguls convinced those trustworthy politicians in DC
that is was better to import steel products from countries with lower overhead , i.e. wages , then places like the afore mentioned cities took it on the chin .
If Philly is going to become something better than what it is now , a shit load more work and appeal is going to have to make it's presents felt .

Oh , and by the way , if your 10 , you might live long enough to see all those pretty renderings and elevation sketches become reality , however I would not count on what you
see today , becoming a reality 30 / 40 years down the road .

PS ; I wouldn't count on any Comcast III tomorrow , next year or ever ...... THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it .

As a person who lives in NY and still spends considerable time in Philly (I own two houses there), I can assure you there is room for more than just NYC.

Despite popular belief, NY is not shangri la. In many respects, it is at its carrying capacity. Centrally located neighborhoods (for the most part) have been massively down zoned, forcing people to move further and further out. The subway system, though clearly America's best, is under extreme pressure. Simply put, it's at its carrying capacity. It is dirty (yes, dirtier than Philadelphia) and virtually unlivable for anyone making under $200K a year.

Simply put, there isn't enough of NY for all NYers. And many are tiring of it. But they aren't tiring of urban living. So they're looking to places further afield, and they're more likely to pick a place like Philadelphia than say, Phoenix or San Antonio or Houston.

Just my two cents.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by br323206

It's an unpopular opinion but I think our schools issue is overblown. Is it a problem? Absolutely. But it's always given as the reason we aren't growing faster. In fact, many fast growing cities have terrible schools. Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Dallas--to name a few. On the other hand, Montco, Bucks, and Chesco have some of the best schools in the country and are also growing slowly.

I know it's popular to shit on Delco and leave it out of the limelight. But it too has some of the best schools in the country.

First Tier:

Radnor
Wallingford Swarthmore
Garnet Valley
Rose Tree Media
Haverford
Marple Newtown
Unionville Chadds Ford (Chadds Ford Township is in Delaware County, not Chester County)
West Chester Area (Thornbury Township Delaware County is in the West Chester School District)

Second Tier:
Springfield
Penn Delco

Case in point, there are three terrible school districts in Delaware County and 2-3 mediocre districts. Virtually every single other school district in Delco is excellent by public school district standards and most major metros would be happy to have any one of them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Delco is by far the most well connected County in the region. It has raw infrastructure assets that most counties in the country would kill for.

It will have its day in the spotlight again, and I suspect that spotlight is coming sooner than people think. Sitting in traffic for 2-3 hours a day to get to work isn't the way people want to spend their lives. The metro can only expand so far outward before it turns back onto itself.

That has already started occurring, as witnessed by how much of Philly is filling in again after years and years of emptying out and in that the largest population gains are in Philly itself (as opposed to the suburbs). Delco will benefit from that growth moreso than any other suburban county.

[UrbanRevival]

I think we all need to remind ourselves what population "estimate" means. It's literally just a number based on data-crunching of age, race and immigration variables (and extrapolating births and deaths based on racial makeup). Not school quality. Not business environment. Not "hipness." Once the 2020 count is released, THEN it makes sense to ask the more existential questions about how Philly is doing.

I will also definitely echo the other couple of posters alluding to the fact that quality is far more important than quantity. The states/regions largely driving the country's growth like Florida, Texas, Arizona and Southern California don't exactly rank respectably in the standard of living department for a plethora of reasons.

I also think it's important to note that, at least based on the latest labor numbers, it's clear that Philadelphia (and the Northeast generally) is just much more of a "matured" economy. Consider that Pennsylvania produced over 70,000 new jobs last year, yet (according to "estimates") lost approx. 8,000 residents. The Philadelphia region, including the city, are the drivers of this super high job growth to population growth ratio (Philly, by the way, grew it's job totals by over 3% over the past year as of the latest report, which is phenomenal). Here are the labor stats: http://www.workstats.dli.pa.gov/MediaCenter/MonthlyNews/Pages/default.aspx

The point stands that if cities like Philadelphia are much better at creating jobs than people, that's actually a fantastic problem to have and really speaks to the need to "spread the word" about the career opportunities that continue to abound for potential newcomers.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

As a person who lives in NY and still spends considerable time in Philly (I own two houses there), I can assure you there is room for more than just NYC.

Despite popular belief, NY is not shangri la. In many respects, it is at its carrying capacity. Centrally located neighborhoods (for the most part) have been massively down zoned, forcing people to move further and further out. The subway system, though clearly America's best, is under extreme pressure. Simply put, it's at its carrying capacity. It is dirty (yes, dirtier than Philadelphia) and virtually unlivable for anyone making under $200K a year.

Simply put, there isn't enough of NY for all NYers. And many are tiring of it. But they aren't tiring of urban living. So they're looking to places further afield, and they're more likely to pick a place like Philadelphia than say, Phoenix or San Antonio or Houston.

Just my two cents.

Greetings 3&B , your two cents are the reflected results of knowledge and I appreciate your response to my note . NYC had the historical
advantage of great location ...... as any good real estate agent will attest to . There's no shame in being the economic powerhouse of the
free world . Every metropolitan center has it's dark side and one can find fault with Snow White and the seven dwarfs if you look for them .

So maybe I embarked on a feeble attempt to express my opinion about facts and fables . In this country , the industrial age is just about
shot in the ass and both money and politics played a major roll in their demise . Some arrogant bastards love referring to our neck of the
woods as the rust belt . Christ , even W.C.Fields made fun of Philadelphia .

To conclude this little tirade , at this moment in time , Philly is at the precipice and can go either way . I hope the city can change some
of it's " evil ways " and can emerge as the diamond in the rough ...... but 40/50 years is a long way off and somehow shit always happens
weather we like it or not .......

Pardon the repetition but that's just my two cents .

[summersm343]

Here are the Population Changes from 2015 to 2016

Philadelphia Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA)
Total - 6,062,303 in 2015 - 6,070,500 in 2016 - +8,197

Philadelphia County - 1,564,964 in 2015 - 1,567,872 in 2016 - +2,908
Montgomery County - 818,363 in 2015 - 821,725 in 2016 - +3,362
Chester County - 515,253 in 2015 - 516,312 in 2016 - +1,059
Delaware County - 563,321 in 2015 - 563,402 in 2016 - +81
Bucks County - 626,821 in 2015 - 626,399 in 2016 - -422
New Castle County - 555,167 in 2015 - 555,987 in 2016 - +820
Cecil County - 102,397 in 2015 - 102,603 in 2016 - +206
Burlington County - 449,675 in 2015 - 449,284 in 2016 - -391
Camden County - 510,295 in 2015 - 510,150 in 2016 - -145
Gloucester County - 292,106 in 2015 - 292,330 in 2016 - +224
Salem County - 63,941 in 2015 - 63,436 in 2016 - -505

Philadelphia Combined Statistical Area (CSA)
Total - 7,173,590 in 2015 - 7,179,357 in 2016 - +5,767

Berks County - 414,635 in 2015 - 414,812 in 2016 - +177
Kent County - 173,533 in 2015 - 174,827 in 2016 - +1,294
Atlantic County - 273,035 in 2015 - 270,991 in 2016 - -2,044
Cape May County - 94,843 in 2015 - 94,430 in 2016 - -413
Cumberland County - 155,241 in 2015 - 153,797 in 2016 - -1,444

MSA:
https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=CF

CSA:
https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=CF

Counties searchable here:
https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/nav/jsf/pages/community_facts.xhtml?src=bkmk#

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Is it official we're no longer 5?

No. Not official.

[reparcsyks]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I think we need to continually work on our global brand too. Businesses are pretty shallow and make more decisions than you think based simply on the cool factor.

Now don't get me wrong, accountants aren't doing this, but I work in several creative industries and this is especially true. There are literally companies opening satellite offices in places like Austin and Brooklyn merely because they are seen as hip and it's cool to put on their masthead. Brooklyn 25 years ago was seen as an urban failure - a cautionary tale. Now it's the center of the universe.

Philly needs to keep improving, do good work, keep its head down and our global rep will change and suddenly we'll find ourselves on more and more of these short lists for new companies/relocations/etc.

I grew up in this area and officially moved to Philly in 1997. My job takes me on the road a fair amount - I remember always having a hint of shame when I would tell people I was from Philly. Here I was traveling to Austin, Portland, SF, etc -- and others -- and I was from Philly. I would have city-envy back then, as if they were somehow better because everyone was talking about them.

Well, something curious started happening. The more I traveled in the USA, the more I realized how average these towns were in comparison to Philly, starting around 2005-ish. The hype NEVER lived up to the town.

Nowadays, I don't understand what is holding Philly back from being spoken about in the same breath as SF, Portland, Seattle, Austin, etc. Our restaurants are incredible, our nightlife is great and our downtown is dense, vibrant, walkable and has an incredible amount of history packed into it. We are an actual city, rather than some cobbled-together pastiche of what a suburban planner images a city should look like. Yes, we have our problems, but, damn, have you ever seen the homeless problem in SF, Portland, Seattle and LA? It makes our city look positively civil. We don't have tent cities in our downtowns and on every highway overpass.

I know a lot goes into remaking a city's reputation, but it is time to sing our praises. Aside from NYC, which is in its own category, we are ready to compete on a national level. No, we don't have the cool jobs of SF, but we need to start strutting our stuff, so that, like Londonee wrote above, we start becoming a destination.

When it comes to America, we're ready for our close-up. We need to convert the Negadelphians to Philadelphians and start letting the country know that Philly can hold its own.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Gonzo the Great

PS ; I wouldn't count on any Comcast III tomorrow , next year or ever ...... THAT'S my story and I'm sticking to it .

Comcast 2 is already at capacity and it's still a work in progress and that's without moving people in from their significant secondary offices throughout the city. Comcast is a train that isn't slowing down. There will be a Comcast 3.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by reparcsyks

When it comes to America, we're ready for our close-up. We need to convert the Negadelphians to Philadelphians and start letting the country know that Philly can hold its own.

I think that's starting to happen. Not trying to get political (famous last words), but Nutter pushed our brand and, although I don't think Kenney has pushed as hard (his stinker of a 4th of July concert comes to mind) he has pushed our presence more than expected. Granted with a more progressive, potentially polarizing attitude than with added events (such as the soda tax and speaking out against Trump - I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just saying they are polarizing issues), but there's still time.

Between the Pope, DNC and now the NFL Draft, we're getting our getting our close up. We are however going to need more of these large scale events if we are to keep the momentum rolling.

[Gonzo the Great]

[QUOTE=summersm343;7750254]Here are the Population Changes from 2015 to 2016

Philadelphia Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA)
Total - 6,062,303 in 2015 - 6,070,500 in 2016 - +8,197

Philadelphia County - 1,564,964 in 2015 - 1,567,872 in 2016 - +2,908



Something seems a bit off here . Wikipedia lists the population figures like this .

2010 1,526,006 +0.6%
2015 1,567,442 +2.7%

If there figures are fact than the gain from 2015 to 2016 is 430 ....... not 2,908 .