PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Larry King

http://planphilly.com/articles/2012/04/12/update-commonwealth-court-upholds-dilworth-house-appeal

^ 223 s 6... previous project was in litigation hell, heard it was back in play so it wouldn't surprise me if it was scannapeico. I live in the neighborhood and would love to see it happen, building looks horrible as is.

Zoning is CMX-4

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Got it. Also found this article: http://planphilly.com/articles/2015/05/19/dilworth-house-can-be-partly-demolished-court-says

If he can get $17MM for a Penthouse you would hope he could hire a better architect on his next attempt.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

If he can get $17MM for a Penthouse you would hope he could hire a better architect on his next attempt.

I am less enthused with 500 Walnut than some who post here, but it's not a terrible building. That said, there are few new construction residential buildings in Philly that I think have been really top notch (as far as exterior and architecture). I don't think 500 Walnut is. It's ok. Maybe this will be the one...

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I am less enthused with 500 Walnut than some who post here, but it's not a terrible building. That said, there are few new construction residential buildings in Philly that I think have been really top notch (as far as exterior and architecture). I don't think 500 Walnut is. It's ok. Maybe this will be the one...

Agreed. It's certainly not offensive.

Not's not saying alot when the entry fee is something like $2,000 a square foot.

[Parkway]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Agreed. It's certainly not offensive.

I think that's the whole point. You risk your investment as a buyer if the building is avant-garde because 20 years down the road people could decide it's really ugly.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Parkway

I think that's the whole point. You risk your investment as a buyer if the building is avant-garde because 20 years down the road people could decide it's really ugly.

So a plain glass curtain wall not particularly well executed with plain concrete is not ugly?

Noted.

Plenty of rich people the world over including many in cities all over this country have demonstrated with their pocket book that there is an appetite for relevant modern design.

No need for Philadelphia to settle for an elevated suburban office park does condominium.

And to counter your point. Through much of history the work of the likes of everyone from Frank Furness and Daniel Burnham and Louis Kahn and Frank Gehry was deemed ugly.

See how that works?

Over the arc of history, as the most dynamic cities are among other things, a historical record of architectural styles, it is important to be participating through relevance rather than "non-offensiveness".

But thanks for your input.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

So a plain glass curtain wall not particularly well executed with plain concrete is not ugly?

Noted.

Plenty of rich people the world over including many in cities all over this country have demonstrated with their pocket book that there is an appetite for relevant modern design.

No need for Philadelphia to settle for an elevated suburban office park does condominium.

And to counter your point. Through much of history the work of the likes of everyone from Frank Furness and Daniel Burnham and Louis Kahn and Frank Gehry was deemed ugly.

See how that works?

Over the arc of history, as the most dynamic cities are among other things, a historical record of architectural styles, it is important to be participating through relevance rather than "non-offensiveness".

But thanks for your input.

Some scorching hot takes here. I really don't think there's anything wrong with 500 Walnut. It's unexciting, that's probably the worst that can be said about it. Which architecturally speaking can be a pretty damming criticism. But in reality so many buildings are far worse. It's total middle of the road.

Also you should head up to NYC which is basically a city of buildings like 500 walnut for the uber wealthy and the vast majority look no better than this.

Obviously plenty of amazing residential buildings are built the world over. Even right here in Philly I think the bridge is phenomenal and at a much lower price point. But they are really not the norm here in Philly or anywhere I've been. It seems great modern architecture is much more common in commercial construction. People are just so much more concerned with what their living space looks like than the exterior of the building they live in. If the people buying these places don't care about exterior design, why should the developers?

500 Walnut isn't a great building, but it's certainly no reason for severe existential dread about the over the state of Philadelphia architecture.

[Boku]

Some population estimates: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/census-2016-philly-miami-phoenix-metro.html

Apparently Philly only grew by 2900 people. Meanwhile, Maricopa County added 222 per day in 2016.

"the only reason Philadelphia has grown at all in the last 10 years is because there are more births than deaths (what demographers call natural increase), and because the city remains a destination for immigrants."

The schools get a lot of the blame for people leaving.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Boku

Some population estimates: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/census-2016-philly-miami-phoenix-metro.html

Apparently Philly only grew by 2900 people. Meanwhile, Maricopa County added 222 per day in 2016.

"the only reason Philadelphia has grown at all in the last 10 years is because there are more births than deaths (what demographers call natural increase), and because the city remains a destination for immigrants."

The schools get a lot of the blame for people leaving.

The schools are absolutely why people are leaving, among other things.

[1487]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The schools are absolutely why people are leaving, among other things.

read the entire article, the regions isn't growing in general. It's not just the schools, if it was the suburbs wouldn't be growing faster.....l

[Parkway]

Originally Posted by 1487

read the entire article, the regions isn't growing in general. It's not just the schools, if it was the suburbs wouldn't be growing faster.....l

Pretty much this, Philadelphia, Chester, and Montgomery Counties have been driving growth in the region. Now that they have slowed down and places like Camden County and Delaware County continue to stagnate.

If anything these numbers illustrate why it's important for Camden to make a come back. South Jersey desperately needs an anchor on that side of the river it can build around.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Some scorching hot takes here. I really don't think there's anything wrong with 500 Walnut. It's unexciting, that's probably the worst that can be said about it. Which architecturally speaking can be a pretty damming criticism. But in reality so many buildings are far worse. It's total middle of the road.

Also you should head up to NYC which is basically a city of buildings like 500 walnut for the uber wealthy and the vast majority look no better than this.

Obviously plenty of amazing residential buildings are built the world over. Even right here in Philly I think the bridge is phenomenal and at a much lower price point. But they are really not the norm here in Philly or anywhere I've been. It seems great modern architecture is much more common in commercial construction. People are just so much more concerned with what their living space looks like than the exterior of the building they live in. If the people buying these places don't care about exterior design, why should the developers?

500 Walnut isn't a great building, but it's certainly no reason for severe existential dread about the over the state of Philadelphia architecture.

Put me in the camp of people who like 500 Walnut. It's much more exciting than most of the luxury buildings being built in NYC. I wish it were a little taller but I like the design and I think it provides a nice juxtaposition to the surrounding buildings. I love the Bridge too, but I think its location is part of its appeal architecturally--being next to the bridge. It would feel off-putting in 500 Walnut's location I think.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Boku

Some population estimates: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/census-2016-philly-miami-phoenix-metro.html

Apparently Philly only grew by 2900 people. Meanwhile, Maricopa County added 222 per day in 2016.

"the only reason Philadelphia has grown at all in the last 10 years is because there are more births than deaths (what demographers call natural increase), and because the city remains a destination for immigrants."

The schools get a lot of the blame for people leaving.

Maricopa County is larger in area than the state of New Jersey.

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by Boku

Some population estimates: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/census-2016-philly-miami-phoenix-metro.html

Apparently Philly only grew by 2900 people. Meanwhile, Maricopa County added 222 per day in 2016.

"the only reason Philadelphia has grown at all in the last 10 years is because there are more births than deaths (what demographers call natural increase), and because the city remains a destination for immigrants."

The schools get a lot of the blame for people leaving.

As I posted in another thread, the article makes some decent points but misses the main issue imo. The primary key to a city's success is economic viability and competence. Philly is lagging behind some of its peers there and it shows.

[1487]

Originally Posted by jjv007

As I posted in another thread, the article makes some decent points but misses the main issue imo. The primary key to a city's success is economic viability and competence. Philly is lagging behind some of its peers there and it shows.

you cant derive all of that from yearly snapshots of census data. Why cities grow or don't grow is a complex issue and one thing is for sure, southern cities have been growing faster than northern cities for decades. So in spite of supposedly superior policies MOST of Philly's peer older cities have only recently reversed decades of population loss and are still generally growing slower than sunbelt cities.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by 1487

you cant derive all of that from yearly snapshots of census data. Why cities grow or don't grow is a complex issue and one thing is for sure, southern cities have been growing faster than northern cities for decades. So in spite of supposedly superior policies MOST of Philly's peer older cities have only recently reversed decades of population loss and are still generally growing slower than sunbelt cities.

It's an unpopular opinion but I think our schools issue is overblown. Is it a problem? Absolutely. But it's always given as the reason we aren't growing faster. In fact, many fast growing cities have terrible schools. Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Dallas--to name a few. On the other hand, Montco, Bucks, and Chesco have some of the best schools in the country and are also growing slowly.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by br323206

It's an unpopular opinion but I think our schools issue is overblown. Is it a problem? Absolutely. But it's always given as the reason we aren't growing faster. In fact, many fast growing cities have terrible schools. Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Dallas--to name a few. On the other hand, Montco, Bucks, and Chesco have some of the best schools in the country and are also growing slowly.

Those fast-growing cities that you mentioned have two things going for them that we lack that contribute to their population growth trajectory:

1)people like to retire there;
2)employment opportunities

Philly can try to make itself more competitive with 2) by trying to get a bigger share of other industries besides "meds and eds" but that's of course easier said than done.

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by br323206

It's an unpopular opinion but I think our schools issue is overblown. Is it a problem? Absolutely. But it's always given as the reason we aren't growing faster. In fact, many fast growing cities have terrible schools. Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Dallas--to name a few. On the other hand, Montco, Bucks, and Chesco have some of the best schools in the country and are also growing slowly.

Yes, very overblown. But as they say, perception distorts reality.

[Knight Hospitaller]

We're not number 5 anymore, and won't make the playoffs again. It's over.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

We're not number 5 anymore, and won't make the playoffs again. It's over.

Damn, you're a dream killer. LOL. I'm just happy we're not in the negative zone. A little growth is better than no growth, but at least we didn't have a major exodus. Ha!