PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by christof

Look at what a $20M hole in financing, hoping to be filled by the state, does to a project. I reference the SLS.

The North Philly project is quite intriguing. I just doubt that the financing will ever come into place, especially if the project is seeking $20M from the Commonwealth. (Boeing is seeking $30M for renovation of a building on their suburban property. Other projects are going to be favored over it.)

It is nice to dream here, but I think, it is best to keep things real...

You're looking at this completely wrong. This is backed by a ton of investors. SLS is not. This is also a proposal for not only luxury apartments, but 214,000 square feet of office space, the re-purposing of a 180,000 square foot factory into light industrial and tech/start-up incubator space, as well as retail and a public plaza/green space... ALL of this on parking lots/empty lots in North Philadelphia - a seriously depressed area. This is much more likely to get financing from the state, than SLS will. Why? SLS is in Center City, and includes a 150 room hotel and 90 luxury condos. It is not a depressed area, and shouldn't need financial backing to make the numbers work.

What about all of the projects that received financing from the state and are moving forward? W Hotel, Divine Lorraine, Gallery redevelopment, 1300 Fairmount, etc. etc. You're looking at one stalled project, and using that as a comparison to suit your constant negative agenda. SLS compared to North Station District is an Apples to Oranges comparison for sure.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by summersm343

You're looking at this completely wrong. This is backed by a ton of investors. SLS is not. This is also a proposal for not only luxury apartments, but 214,000 square feet of office space, the re-purposing of a 180,000 square foot factory into light industrial and tech/start-up incubator space, as well as retail and a public plaza/green space... ALL of this on parking lots/empty lots in North Philadelphia - a seriously depressed area. This is much more likely to get financing from the state, than SLS will. Why? SLS is in Center City, and includes a 150 room hotel and 90 luxury condos. It is not a depressed area, and shouldn't need financing to make the numbers work.

Great minds think alike, but you add that important point. This is an NYC-backed project. There's gold in them thar hills.

[christof]

Originally Posted by summersm343

You're looking at this completely wrong. This is backed by a ton of investors. SLS is not. This is also a proposal for not only luxury apartments, but 214,000 square feet of office space, the re-purposing of a 180,000 square foot factory into light industrial and tech/start-up incubator space, as well as retail and a public plaza/green space... ALL of this on parking lots/empty lots in North Philadelphia - a seriously depressed area. This is much more likely to get financing from the state, than SLS will. Why? SLS is in Center City, and includes a 150 room hotel and 90 luxury condos. It is not a depressed area, and shouldn't need financial backing to make the numbers work.

What about all of the projects that received financing from the state and are moving forward? W Hotel, Divine Lorraine, Gallery redevelopment, 1300 Fairmount, etc. etc. You're looking at one stalled project, and using that as a comparison to suit your constant negative agenda. SLS compared to North Station District is an Apples to Oranges comparison for sure.

Actually, the 180,000 square feet for incubating / start-up space is a red flag for me.

[summersm343]

Philadelphia Film Society to convert space in Prince Theater into first-run movie theater

Philadelphia residents will soon be able to see the newest and hottest Hollywood movies during their first run at the Prince Theater after the conversion of an existing performance space into one that will be able to present films on a daily basis.

The Philadelphia Film Society purchased the Prince Theater in March 2015 for $8 million, after a long history of financial issues, including declaring bankruptcy in 2010. The buy allowed the nonprofit to expand on its offerings related to major city events.

The Film Society also owns the PFS Roxy Theater in Rittenhouse Square. The society in 2013 took over operations of the property, which also serves as a first-run theater. For example, it's currently showing Beauty and the Beast, which was released March 17.

The 446-seat, 37,000-square-foot Prince Theater at 1412 Chestnut St. will also get the first-run treatment after extensive audio-visual upgrades are made to its black box performance space, including a 4K projector and a high-quality surround sound system.

The planned renovations will upgrade the second floor of the Prince Theater, which is now used as a multi-purpose venue for live theater, performance art and music, among other uses.

Renovations will begin "shortly," according to the Film Society, with regular film programming beginning this spring.

With the new equipment and updates, the Film Society intends to activate the space no less than 300 days a year — "likely more" — enabling first-run and curated screenings year-round," a spokeswoman said.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...society-prince-theater-movies-music.html

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by summersm343

As 500 Walnut's topping off approaches, developer already eyeing next project



http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...ondo-tower-scannapieco-cre-old-city.html

Penn's landing?

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I think it's funny that people on here - who have likely never developed a thing in their lives - are calling these very successful real estate developers and investors "fools." If they're successful developers in NYC, it's because they're good at what they do and they think outside of the box. Maybe thinking outside of the box here in Philadelphia will also bring them good fortunes.

Yes , I hope that is much more than wishful thinking . I'm not sure what it will take to get " these very successful developers & investors "
to think outside the box here in Philly , but if East Market is going in the direction that at least some on here would love to see materialize
than maybe they could start with that big ass parking lot between Chestnut & Market @ 8th. st.

I know it has been mentioned by others in the past , so might it not be past time to do something significant at that location ....

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by Gonzo the Great

Yes , I hope that is much more than wishful thinking . I'm not sure what it will take to get " these very successful developers & investors "
to think outside the box here in Philly , but if East Market is going in the direction that at least some on here would love to see materialize
than maybe they could start with that big ass parking lot between Chestnut & Market @ 8th. st.

I know it has been mentioned by others in the past , so might it not be past time to do something significant at that location ....

The issue is that the owner seems to be holding out for maximum dollars. There isn't a single person in this town that isn't praying for something cool for that site on the soon side.

If east market can realize it's true potential through successes @ Market East and the Gallery, I think we'll see something. A lot is riding on those massive projects in that stretch.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by Redddog

The issue is that the owner seems to be holding out for maximum dollars. There isn't a single person in this town that isn't praying for something cool for that site on the soon side.

If east market can realize it's true potential through successes @ Market East and the Gallery, I think we'll see something. A lot is riding on those massive projects in that stretch.

Economics Teacher: Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
Simone: Um, he’s sick. My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.

Economics Teacher: Thank you, Simone.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Given the trajectory of Market East, and the existing transit connections (BSL, MFL, Patco) at that corner, it's only a matter of time (but for a difficult owner).

[1487]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Penn's landing?

I was going to post that. What does it say??

[tsarstruck]

Originally Posted by christof

Actually, the 180,000 square feet for incubating / start-up space is a red flag for me.

As is this:

“You’ve heard of Oakland being hot, you’ve heard of Brooklyn being hot,” Shenot said. “There’s no reason these same trends wouldn’t apply in North Philadelphia, particularly given the existing institutional investment in that neighborhood.”

[jjv007]

Can anybody access the Biz Journals article?

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by christof

Actually, the 180,000 square feet for incubating / start-up space is a red flag for me.

That's interesting. Did you spend 7 million dollars to determine whether or not that aspect of the project would be an issue? I think I'll trust the experts who spent millions of dollars putting this together.

Also, in your repeated attempts to compare this to SLS, you continually ignore the most important difference. There was never any type of indication SLS was fully funded except for the $20 million they requested from the state. State funding was just a piece of a big puzzle that they couldn't put together. That's not the case with this project which funded 90% of the project before even announcing it.

Also for those who doubt they actually spent the 9 million they claimed to have spent, I don't even know what to say. Developers often paint a rosy picture and are overly optimistic. But I have zero recollection of one flat out lying about costs associated with the project.

[1487]

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

As is this:

I'm confused. What is so controversial about the statement? Compared to anytime over the past 50 years North Philly is hot. North Philly is huge and that includes Temple area, Brewerytown, Francisville, etc. There is all kinds of development going on north of Girard and east of the rail viaduct in eastern North Philly.

[1487]

Originally Posted by allovertown

That's interesting. Did you spend 7 million dollars to determine whether or not that aspect of the project would be an issue? I think I'll trust the experts who spent millions of dollars putting this together.

Also, in your repeated attempts to compare this to SLS, you continually ignore the most important difference. There was never any type of indication SLS was fully funded except for the $20 million they requested from the state. State funding was just a piece of a big puzzle that they couldn't put together. That's not the case with this project which funded 90% of the project before even announcing it.

Also for those who doubt they actually spent the 9 million they claimed to have spent, I don't even know what to say. Developers often paint a rosy picture and are overly optimistic. But I have zero recollection of one flat out lying about costs associated with the project.

article claims they paid 2.1mil for parking lot- we can easily verify if they are telling the truth. That's 2mil of the 7mil right there.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by 1487

I was going to post that. What does it say??

It suggests that he has already picked a location for his next project and that he loves Old City/Society Hill because of it's history and architectural diversity. So if it's gonna be in that area, I can't think of a better place than that for his type of project.

Would that be awesome?

[McBane]

Originally Posted by Redddog

Penn's landing?

I can't imagine the ultra wealthy wanting to live at Penn's Landing or Scannapieco building anywhere but Society Hill/Washington Square and Rittenhouse. His buildings are at a level above the typical "luxury" tower.

Read closely his description:

What Scannapieco likes about the historic area and Society Hill neighborhood is its higher than average incomes and larger presence of families, as well as the real estate breakdown – there's more residential space, less retail and other commercial space. It’s calmer yet sophisticated with history just steps away in just about any direction.

It's clear he wants to stay in the Society Hill/Wash Square area but sites here are extremely limited. And Society Hill NIMBYs are notoriously anti-development as evidenced by their immature reaction to Alterra's 5 story development (Save our Society Hill! Really?). Actually, that site would be fantastic for Scannapieco.

Wash Square is ringed by either towers or historic townhomes that people would pop their blood vessels if Scannapeico attempted to demo. The challenge for Scannapieco is finding the right location befitting his ultra luxury buildings. The location must be premium or else it simply won't be able to command the market demographics he is targeting. Sorry Penn's Landing does not meet that criteria.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by McBane

I can't imagine the ultra wealthy wanting to live at Penn's Landing or Scannapieco building anywhere but Society Hill/Washington Square and Rittenhouse. His buildings are at a level above the typical "luxury" tower.

Read closely his description:

It's clear he wants to stay in the Society Hill/Wash Square area but sites here are extremely limited. And Society Hill NIMBYs are notoriously anti-development as evidenced by their immature reaction to Alterra's 5 story development (Save our Society Hill! Really?). Actually, that site would be fantastic for Scannapieco.

Wash Square is ringed by either towers or historic townhomes that people would pop their blood vessels if Scannapeico attempted to demo. The challenge for Scannapieco is finding the right location befitting his ultra luxury buildings. The location must be premium or else it simply won't be able to command the market demographics he is targeting.

I was suggesting Penn's Landing based more on what it will become rather than what it is currently. If Penn's plan comes to fruition, it will essentially be connecting society hill to the water front. And the renderings I've seen all feature residential buildings as part of the plan.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Philadelphia Film Society to convert space in Prince Theater into first-run movie theater



http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...society-prince-theater-movies-music.html

Great news! Would be great if there is an exterior renovation. But great news even if now.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by Redddog

I was suggesting Penn's Landing based more on what it will become rather than what it is currently. If Penn's plan comes to fruition, it will essentially be connecting society hill to the water front. And the renderings I've seen all feature residential buildings as part of the plan.

I know but you can't market an ultra luxury building at a location that isn't equally high end. Scannapieco isn't a pioneer and besides, the multi-lane highway that is Columbus Blvd does not speak to what he described as his ideal location (quiet, residential). Also, banking anything on Penn's Landing resurgence is an iffy prospect at best.