PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[McBane]

Two thoughts on the North Philly proposal:

Re connection to NYC. Two types of people live in Philly and work frequently in NYC. Artists and people who make enough money to not have to "settle" to live in an "off" location in Philadelphia. I didn't see it mentioned in the article, but this project would do really well to offer an artist studio component. There's plenty of land, including some vacant factories. More significantly, if offered cheap, artists would definitely sign on which in turn would make the entire project viable to regular folks.

This is a good segue into my second point. For this to be successful, the developer will need two things:

1) Critical mass: the existing neighborhood here is pretty tough and the only way I think this can be successful is by building and populating a self sustaining neighborhood and quickly. Artists will help but they'll need more than some artist studios and a 128 unit building to create that critical mass needed to make this project sustainable. Stay away from phases and if needed, offer a discount to the first wave of pioneers, I mean renters.

2) Security: real or imagined, there is a perception...

I really do hope this becomes a reality because it could be huge.

[mja]

Originally Posted by 1487

apparently you missed the part about the train station and proximity to Temple being a major reason for the investment. Chinatown isn't along a train station that connects to NYC. This location connects you to the subway, RR and Amtrak. There aren't many such locations in this, or any other city.

Look, I get that being needlessly confrontational is kinda your thing, but you're reading negativity into my comments that isn't even there.

I'm hopeful about the project, but it was completely unexpected and i was merely expressing my astonishment that such a thing could exist at this point in time. I actually don't share the pessimism of a few other posters, and generally believe that people too often confuse pessimism for wisdom, but if you are going to try to claim that the idea of a reputable high profile New York developer launching into a $160 million mixed-use project in the middle of North Philly shouldn't have been astonishing, or wouldn't have been to you prior to this announcement, then I'm going to call bullshit.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by McBane

Two thoughts on the North Philly proposal:

Re connection to NYC. Two types of people live in Philly and work frequently in NYC. Artists and people who make enough money to not have to "settle" to live in an "off" location in Philadelphia. I didn't see it mentioned in the article, but this project would do really well to offer an artist studio component. There's plenty of land, including some vacant factories. More significantly, if offered cheap, artists would definitely sign on which in turn would make the entire project viable to regular folks.

This is a good segue into my second point. For this to be successful, the developer will need two things:

1) Critical mass: the existing neighborhood here is pretty tough and the only way I think this can be successful is by building and populating a self sustaining neighborhood and quickly. Artists will help but they'll need more than some artist studios and a 128 unit building to create that critical mass needed to make this project sustainable. Stay away from phases and if needed, offer a discount to the first wave of pioneers, I mean renters.

2) Security: real or imagined, there is a perception...

I really do hope this becomes a reality because it could be huge.

Good points. It would be interesting if they made rehabbing the warehouse the first order of business while the new construction was getting started, and if the owners looked at the warehouse as a loss leader. A piece of the project that wouldn't be counted on to turn a profit right from the start.
Easy for me to say this, playing with other peoples money!

[1487]

Originally Posted by mja

Look, I get that being needlessly confrontational is kinda your thing, but you're reading negativity into my comments that isn't even there.

I'm hopeful about the project, but it was completely unexpected and i was merely expressing my astonishment that such a thing could exist at this point in time. I actually don't share the pessimism of a few other posters, and generally believe that people too often confuse pessimism for wisdom, but if you are going to try to claim that the idea of a reputable high profile New York developer launching into a $160 million mixed-use project in the middle of North Philly shouldn't have been astonishing, or wouldn't have been to you prior to this announcement, then I'm going to call bullshit.

a significant portion of the development going on now in fringe areas could qualify as astonishing. I'm astonished people are building $400k homes in Kensington. But these are the times we're in now and national developers see value here.

BTW Temple is in the middle of north philly and the university and private entities are pouring hundreds of millions into the area. There is a 19 story tower proposed for Broad and Oxford- middle of North Philly. Nothing in 2017 is as shocking as it would've been 10 years ago. This site is in betwen the two hubs of Temple on Broad so while this MUCH investment in this specific area is definitely new, the area itself is ideal for connection to many things. Temple students are seen all over North Broad, right up to Broad and Erie. Some used to go to the Pathmark on Glenwood before it closed.

[summersm343]

12 major Delaware River Waterfront projects in the works

http://philly.curbed.com/maps/delaware-river-waterfront-projects-development-philadelphia

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by 1487

article says they have spent $7m so far and people are on here acting like this is some fabricated pie in the sky proposal by half assed developers. YOu don't spend $7mil in north philly without a plan. Also says Amtrak is involved in the proposal.

^^^^THIS! By the time you've spent $7 million on a project, you're probably pretty certain of building *something* on the site or flipping it to someone who will.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

^^^^THIS! By the time you've spent $7 million on a project, you're probably pretty certain of at building *something* on the site or flipping it to someone who will.

Including land acquisition, they've actually spent more than $9 million.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Including land acquisition, they've actually spent more than $9 million.

Spent $9M on what???
I acknowledge that my opinions, and yours, aren't going to effect this project one bit, but if they have spent that kind of money on a very speculative project, that sounds like its totally dependent on $20M of State money (which ain't going to happen) then they sound like fools to me.
Unless they are throwing cash out the windows I don't see any practical way for them to have spent $9M on this to date. A full set of working drawings, which aren't needed this far out from actual construction, for the whole projected $162M build out would probably be in the range of $10M.
I'd like to see this built; who wouldn't. But to me, from my little window on the world, this seems like pie in the sky.

[summersm343]

I think it's funny that people on here - who have likely never developed a thing in their lives - are calling these very successful real estate developers and investors "fools." If they're successful developers in NYC, it's because they're good at what they do and they think outside of the box. Maybe thinking outside of the box here in Philadelphia will also bring them good fortunes.

[MAF1968]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I think it's funny that people on here - who have likely never developed a thing in their lives - are calling these very successful real estate developers and investors "fools." If they're successful developers in NYC, it's because they're good at what they do and they think outside of the box. Maybe thinking outside of the box here in Philadelphia will also bring them good fortunes.

I'm with you. These people know potential when it presents itself. I love this project and I fully expect it to get built. Where else can you get a parcel of land this large that sits on a major transit corridor that also sits between a major university and a major teaching hospital? Not in New York. Not for this price. They smell the money. Temple has got to be thrilled with this even if they are not involved. I look forward to the ground breaking. I look forward to the changes this will bring to this part of our city. The North Broad Street corridor continues its transformation.

[1487]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Spent $9M on what???
I acknowledge that my opinions, and yours, aren't going to effect this project one bit, but if they have spent that kind of money on a very speculative project, that sounds like its totally dependent on $20M of State money (which ain't going to happen) then they sound like fools to me.
Unless they are throwing cash out the windows I don't see any practical way for them to have spent $9M on this to date. A full set of working drawings, which aren't needed this far out from actual construction, for the whole projected $162M build out would probably be in the range of $10M.
I'd like to see this built; who wouldn't. But to me, from my little window on the world, this seems like pie in the sky.

no one expects the full amount they request for RACP. Every developer asks for the stars and will accept the moon. It would be foolish to assume they need $20mil to make this happen.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I think it's funny that people on here - who have likely never developed a thing in their lives - are calling these very successful real estate developers and investors "fools." If they're successful developers in NYC, it's because they're good at what they do and they think outside of the box. Maybe thinking outside of the box here in Philadelphia will also bring them good fortunes.

Agree. And people look at one stalled and potentially failed project like SLS and equate this to that even though the circumstances are vastly different...

[summersm343]

As 500 Walnut's topping off approaches, developer already eyeing next project

Tom Scannapieco is just days away from the topping off of 500 Walnut, the developer’s second Philadelphia condominium tower that targets the ultra wealthy, and he’s already contemplating his next one.

Scannapieco isn’t ready to divulge where in Philadelphia he plans to launch what would be his third high-end condo tower, but he said he likes the intimacy and scale of the historic area compared with where he built 1706 Rittenhouse. Located just steps away from Rittenhouse Square, 1706 Rittenhouse was his first Center City condo project and it catered to the rich and famous.

“There are many people who prefer this part of town,” he said. “I like this side of the city.”

What Scannapieco likes about the historic area and Society Hill neighborhood is its higher than average incomes and larger presence of families, as well as the real estate breakdown – there's more residential space, less retail and other commercial space. It’s calmer yet sophisticated with history just steps away in just about any direction.

The challenge, he said, is finding a site. It’s likely, however, Scannapieco has found one but isn’t quite ready to say much about it until plans are finalized.

If the sales at 500 Walnut are any indication of how people are responding to yet another high-end residential building in the neighborhood, then they like it. They have so far spent between $8 million to $17.85 million on a unit. To date, the 26-story building has tallied $120 million of what is expected to be a total of $180 million in total sales. Of its 35 units, 23 have have been spoken for, with several buyers taking more than one unit and combining them to create a larger, more spacious living area.

“I think the proof is in the pudding,” said Jeff Block, a Center City real estate agent with Berkshire Hathaway Fox & Roach. “The $5-$6-$7 million plus properties have sold like hotcakes.”

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...ondo-tower-scannapieco-cre-old-city.html

[summersm343]

New Coworking Space Joynture Lands on South Street

Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/business/2017/03/21/joynture-coworking-south-street/#OXBzJyUxtwIVXbeH.99

[christof]

Originally Posted by 1487

no one expects the full amount they request for RACP. Every developer asks for the stars and will accept the moon. It would be foolish to assume they need $20mil to make this happen.

Look at what a $20M hole in financing, hoping to be filled by the state, does to a project. I reference the SLS.

The North Philly project is quite intriguing. I just doubt that the financing will ever come into place, especially if the project is seeking $20M from the Commonwealth. (Boeing is seeking $30M for renovation of a building on their suburban property. Other projects are going to be favored over it.)

It is nice to dream here, but I think, it is best to keep things real...

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by summersm343

As 500 Walnut's topping off approaches, developer already eyeing next project

Altius! (especially on the east side of town)

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by summersm343

As 500 Walnut's topping off approaches, developer already eyeing next project



http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...ondo-tower-scannapieco-cre-old-city.html

I wonder if the developer could repeat 500's success with something taller. Something around Rittenhouse >400 ft would be amazing (which 1911 might give us, but yknow, that hasn't happened yet).

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by christof

Look at what a $20M hole in financing, hoping to be filled by the state, does to a project. I reference the SLS.

Apples and oranges. I agree with 1487. Dranoff is good, but AAA baseball good. I think there's a rebuttable presumption, based on their background, that this NYC outfit knows what they're doing. They probably don't need the entire $20 million. I think you're more likely to see the State interested in doing something to help a giant eyesore in a poor neighborhood than funding a luxury hotel in Center City (even if the latter is arguably good for business).

[mcgrath618]

I'm just more excited that NYC devs are starting to give Philadelphia another look.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I'm just more excited that NYC devs are starting to give Philadelphia another look.

Indeed. The great pot of money to the north.