Calgary Public Transit II

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by Socguy

To be completely honest, I don't see what all the fuss is regarding electronic cards. The system doesn't need 'em. Instead of wasting money failing to implement an eticket, CT should be looking at ways to get rid of fares all together.

So basically tax the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 out of everybody is what you want? Only way to have no fares is for it to be completely subsidized by tax payers. I'd rather pay the $7 when I go to a Stamps game than have it added on to my monthly taxes.

I don't get the fuss either but I don't ride buses, just the ctrain from Brentwood currently when I get Stamps tickets. Doesn't bother me to stop at the little kiosk and buy my tickets there.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by Socguy

To be completely honest, I don't see what all the fuss is regarding electronic cards. The system doesn't need 'em.

You've never had to struggle to find enough loose change to board the bus? Or scramble to find those paper tickets you thought you had? Or swear at yourself for forgetting to buy tickets/pass at the grocery store the last time you went there? Or grumble while walking 15 minutes out of your way to go to coop/safeway/macs/etc to buy tickets/passes?

Granted, these are not Big Problems for most people. But they are tiny irritants to every single person that uses transit*, and it's a barrier to use.

[* Less annoying at train stations now that ticket machines take debit/credit]

[Canadian74]

It's not just for passenger convenience.

It also helps with fare evasion, lost revenue, lower maintenance costs etc

[Cage]

I'm looking to speak on three items tomorrow at TnT.

1) Airport Trail phase 2.
2) Advanced Payment System
3) route ahead update (discuss airport LRT connection)

[MalcolmTucker]

I really hope they at least study a forced transfer to get to the airport instead of interlining with lots of different tech and number of stop options.

[speedog]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a fareless public transit system that would be comparable to Calgary Transit? For the record, I think a fareless system would result in significantly increased property/business taxes plus I think the system would probably suffer quite a bit more abuse.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by speedog

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know of a fareless public transit system that would be comparable to Calgary Transit? For the record, I think a fareless system would result in significantly increased property/business taxes plus I think the system would probably suffer quite a bit more abuse.

Tallinn, Estonia (~ half a million, five tram lines as well as 60+ bus lines) went fareless a few years ago, and the results have been generally positive; about a 15% increase in transit trips, 70% approval rating and an improvement in mobility for marginalized groups. (I think the Guardian report paints it in a harsher light than the Cats et al. study the article is based on.) The city actually made a substantial profit from the move, although that's due to nuances of Estonian tax law not relevant here.

What do you mean by the system suffering abuse? Do you mean anti-society types moaning about paying their share in taxes? Do you mean coordinatedd anti-transit groups like Ready To Enrage? Do you mean a driver-centric focus in the public discussion of transportation? I'm not sure the system could get that much more abuse like this.

[MalcolmTucker]

I think he/she is alluding to not being able to exclude people he deems undesirable from occupying the system or stations.

Also, the increased property tax/business taxes reflects a complete lack of understanding about how property taxes work in Alberta, the revenue neutral system. To collect $1 of extra revenue, city council needs to raise taxes, and to collect $1 less the city needs to cut taxes.

[ByeByeBaby]

The tax impact of fareless transit isn't too hard to estimate; the annual fare revenue of Calgary Transit divides out to about $177 per citizen per year.

Moving to fareless transit would provide some modest efficiencies. Security staff could concentrate on security rather than fare evasion (and probably work in smaller teams). CT would remove a layer of expenses associated with printing / distributing tickets, transfers and passes; with emptying fareboxes and processing the money; with emptying and maintaining ticket machines. The delays caused by operators checking fares would be removed, which is probably the biggest source of efficiency, although a move to all-door boarding with proof-of-payment could do this within the current fare regime.

This of course ignores potential efficiencies from reduced road construction and maintenance, which could be substantial.

[CrossedTheTracks]

Presumably operating expense increases as well, if service improvements are required as usage slides up the demand curve.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

Presumably operating expense increases as well, if service improvements are required as usage slides up the demand curve.

And driving may increase as well, if short trips are shifted to transit that displace long trips.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ When you want to go back to debating things decided years ago, yeah you're going to feel like discussion is being prevented.

Cost is something council will get to talk about after the next election, inevitably. I doubt the province will much like grants being announced then the city cancelling a project however.

[Socguy]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

So basically tax the 🞵🞵🞵🞵 out of everybody is what you want? Only way to have no fares is for it to be completely subsidized by tax payers. I'd rather pay the $7 when I go to a Stamps game than have it added on to my monthly taxes.

Isn't that what the city already does so that people can drive cars wherever they want? Or live in the middle of nowhere?

Transit is an essential service for a city like Calgary to function. Whether or not you use transit you benefit from each and ever person who does. Be it from reducing traffic congestion or getting low wage workers to their jobs so business don't have to shut down and the economy keeps functioning. The fare system is nothing but an inefficiency in the delivery of a service and worse, a drag on the utilization of an investment we've already made.

However, property taxes are not the right source. Everyone needs to contribute, not just property owners. Hence why I said the city needs to find a way....

[dazzlingdave88]

Originally Posted by Socguy

Isn't that what the city already does so that people can drive cars wherever they want? Or live in the middle of nowhere?

Transit is an essential service for a city like Calgary to function. Whether or not you use transit you benefit from each and ever person who does. Be it from reducing traffic congestion or getting low wage workers to their jobs so business don't have to shut down and the economy keeps functioning. The fare system is nothing but an inefficiency in the delivery of a service and worse, a drag on the utilization of an investment we've already made.

However, property taxes are not the right source. Everyone needs to contribute, not just property owners. Hence why I said the city needs to find a way....

Exactly. If we went to a full user pay system for every service the city provides, I think some people would be in for a huge shock for exactly what the city provides to them at little to no cost.

[joe498]

Construction is well underway on the South Crosstown BRT: http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/...h-Crosstown-Bus-Rapid-Transit-(BRT).aspx

This will be a pretty good route for those in the SE trying to get to the SW.

[Socguy]

Speaking of the SW, when are we going to get the SW BRT?

[DizzyEdge]

Does anyone know what the logos were of the pre-1946 Calgary Street Railway, or the pre-1972 Calgary Transit System?

[CrossedTheTracks]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Does anyone know what the logos were of the pre-1946 Calgary Street Railway, or the pre-1972 Calgary Transit System?

I couldn't find anything for Calgary Municipal Railway (I assume that's what you meant?) that would be a "logo", just a wordmark for "Calgary Municipal Railway" that is seen on the side of the streetcars.

Calgary Transit System: seems to be a stylized "CTS" inside a circle; see one of the pictures at: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpost.php?p=3677215&postcount=682

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by CrossedTheTracks

I couldn't find anything for Calgary Municipal Railway (I assume that's what you meant?) that would be a "logo", just a wordmark for "Calgary Municipal Railway" that is seen on the side of the streetcars.

Calgary Transit System: seems to be a stylized "CTS" inside a circle; see one of the pictures at: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpost.php?p=3677215&postcount=682

Cool thanks. Since the TTC uses its historical logo



I was curious what Calgary's equivalent would be.

Looks like it's similar to this

[para transit fellow]

Have you checked with the die-hard transit fans over at cptdb.ca?

Their breadth and depth of transit knowledge is simply staggering.