The Ugly Canada Thread

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

On the other hand, I wonder if someday we'll be lumping that building into the same category as its context.

Look at the Aldred Building in your pic for an obvious example -- when it was new, I'm sure you could have easily said it was clashing with the neighborhood. In fact, the Aldred is separated from Notre-Dame basilica by many more decades than the courthouse is separated from the Aldred.

I am noticing that in older neighborhoods, we give a pass to Victorian stuff showing up among significantly older building stock... maybe someday the same will happen with a brutalist building in an otherwise homogeneous Victorian neighborhood.

I disagree for three reasons. The Aldred uses similar materials to surrounding buildings (stone), has more similar massing and is not scaled to take up an entire block. I considered what you said but the thing is as a kid seeing the Aldred and having no idea about architectural styles or eras it never stuck out to me like the courthouse did. It seemed like it belonged more with the character of everything else.

[WhipperSnapper]

It's grasping to say Aldred has a more similar massing to the rest of the port. The courthouse is on the perimeter of the district along side other institutional buildings that also stand alone in the district. I'm sure, in your humble opinion, the Baroque neighbours are vastly superior to the modern courthouse. Your track read in this thread shows little respect for modern architecture.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

I am noticing that in older neighborhoods, we give a pass to Victorian stuff showing up among significantly older building stock... maybe someday the same will happen with a brutalist building in an otherwise homogeneous Victorian neighborhood.

There are some streetscapes in Old Montreal that are immersive and feature a narrow mix of buildings but the immediate courthouse area isn't like that. Across from the courthouse there's what looks like a stripped-down early modern office block (10 Notre-Dame E), some 1920's looking buildings, and some newer and not entirely successful attempts at mimicing the overall massing of the older buildings without also reproducing the expensive materials or detailing. I like the courthouse a lot more than the timid 1980's-2000's buildings. If people don't notice those 90's knockoffs I question how much of an eye for architecture they really have.

Because the neighbourhood has narrow streets and the courthouse tower has a huge setback it's not very prominent at street level. One block away: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.5056097,-...tEnxMVuEZUh7QBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en (I assume this was by design)

In cases where there is an intact block, street, or district with great buildings that exemplify certain styles or periods I'm all in favour of preservation and reconstruction. In other cases, I prefer contemporary buildings to historical recreations. All else being equal, the buildings with contemporary designs are going to turn out better.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by someone123

There are some streetscapes in Old Montreal that are immersive and feature a narrow mix of buildings but the immediate courthouse area isn't like that. Across from the courthouse there's what looks like a stripped-down early modern office block (10 Notre-Dame E), some 1920's looking buildings, and some newer and not entirely successful attempts at mimicing the overall massing of the older buildings without also reproducing the expensive materials or detailing. I like the courthouse a lot more than the timid 1980's-2000's buildings. If people don't notice those 90's knockoffs I question how much of an eye for architecture they really have.

Because the neighbourhood has narrow streets and the courthouse tower has a huge setback it's not very prominent at street level. One block away: https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.5056097,-...tEnxMVuEZUh7QBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en (I assume this was by design)

In cases where there is an intact block, street, or district with great buildings that exemplify certain styles or periods I'm all in favour of preservation and reconstruction. In other cases, I prefer contemporary buildings to historical recreations. All else being equal, the buildings with contemporary designs are going to turn out better.

I agree with this. I saw some very nice examples in Quebec city of modern additions to old buildings like churches that contrasted rather than blended in with the original architecture. Generally I actually prefer that. However with the Courthouse building I find it simply too overpowering to everything else around it. The scale is huge. On its' own I don't mind the building but I really don't like it in the Vieux Port. It's been a couple years since I've been by and I admit to not having looked very closely at the other modern buildings nearby but I still feel it dominates that area way too much. When you're on the street by the Cathedral thankfully you can't see it.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

It's grasping to say Aldred has a more similar massing to the rest of the port. The courthouse is on the perimeter of the district along side other institutional buildings that also stand alone in the district. I'm sure, in your humble opinion, the Baroque neighbours are vastly superior to the modern courthouse. Your track read in this thread shows little respect for modern architecture.

Yes you know me so well. I love Baroque architecture and hate all modernism! Forget the fact I absolutely love mid century modernism and yes even some Brutalism. What 'track record' are you even referring to? Because I once photoshopped Robart's library as Rodan in a Clockzilla battle? It was too perfect not to. Doesn't mean I don't find it interesting.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I disagree for three reasons. The Aldred uses similar materials to surrounding buildings (stone), has more similar massing and is not scaled to take up an entire block. I considered what you said but the thing is as a kid seeing the Aldred and having no idea about architectural styles or eras it never stuck out to me like the courthouse did. It seemed like it belonged more with the character of everything else.

The Frontenac "Castle" takes an entire block too and is totally out-of-scale with its immediate surroundings -- it's also much newer than most of the Old Core -- so by your standards, it should be eliminated, 'cause it's an eyesore, right?

[lio45]

BTW, again, the Price Building was hated by preservationists when it was new -- totally out-of-scale with the neighborhood, plus two older small buildings were destroyed to make way for it (it's only on a double lot, it has a surprisingly small footprint).

If we could turn back the clock now, I don't think I'd trade the Price Building for whatever was there (unless they were very very special, I can easily imagine what these two buildings were like -- we still have lots of them around).

My point is, maybe people will say the same thing with that courthouse someday.

[lio45]

[Posted in wrong thread. Fixed.]

[BretttheRiderFan]

I like the brutalist aspects of the skyline, it gives some diversity and sense that the city didn't stop being relevant in the 19th century.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by lio45

[Posted in wrong thread. Fixed.]

It definitely belonged in the Ugly Canada thread though

[Acajack]

I've walked past the Montreal courthouse on Notre-Dame a gazillion times on my way to Place Jacques-Cartier.

I still maintain it's a bit jarring visually when you walk past it given what comes before it, after it, and is across the street.

It would have been fine among the skyscrapers along René-Lévesque where there is more modern architecture.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

The Frontenac "Castle" takes an entire block too and is totally out-of-scale with its immediate surroundings -- it's also much newer than most of the Old Core -- so by your standards, it should be eliminated, 'cause it's an eyesore, right?

You love to argue for the sake of it don't you Lio? Quit being ridiculous. You're ignoring the most important fact about the Chateau Frontenac - IT'S A CHATEAU! A castle fits in with the fortifications of old Quebec City for very obvious reasons vs. a giant modern slab plopped down in the middle of the Vieux Port.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Could we just rename The Rooms, The Chateau Merrymeeting?

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

Could we just rename The Rooms, The Chateau Merrymeeting?

What about the Fish Hut?

[HomeInMyShoes]

^There's a photoshop opportunity there.

[SignalHillHiker]

Buddy's Shed is the best we'd ever get in a name change. Fort Townshend used to be there, and used to be the most common way of noting that geographic area. Now people just say The Rooms or Bonaventure.

[TorontoDrew]

There is this seniors home on the Danforth in Toronto. The image shows it's nice side. Click the link to see it's bad side.The entire Danforth and area just north is well stocked with ugly.

from: https://www.emporis.com


https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6794705,-...S1Mb0ZZSBpD1CBBH73JDg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Impressive. I thought it was ugly enough with what looks to be a brutalist addition on top and then that other side is just sweet. So soul-sucking. A very worthy entry to the thread.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

You love to argue for the sake of it don't you Lio? Quit being ridiculous. You're ignoring the most important fact about the Chateau Frontenac - IT'S A CHATEAU!

No it's not, it's a tacky 1890s hotel. It's got about exactly zero to do with an actual castle.

A castle fits in with the fortifications of old Quebec City for very obvious reasons vs. a giant modern slab plopped down in the middle of the Vieux Port.

If the standard is "fitting in with the fortifications", then a brutalist bunker would actually be a much better fit than a Victorian-era hotel.....

I think many people are a bit blinded by their bias against newer architecture, that's all. We now universally love buildings that were despised by people exactly like us 80 years ago because they were brand new, because they clashed with their older/homogeneous neighborhood, and because they were totally out-of-scale with their surroundings. Can't you see that there's a good chance, if history repeats itself, that the Montrealers of the 22nd century will like that courthouse and consider it a really fine example of the architecture of its era? It might even be a designated heritage building by then, due to being a particularly desirable example of its era.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

There is this seniors home on the Danforth in Toronto. The image shows it's nice side. Click the link to see it's bad side.The entire Danforth and area just north is well stocked with ugly.

from: https://www.emporis.com


https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6794705,-...S1Mb0ZZSBpD1CBBH73JDg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

A prison for seniors. They built a semi decent new seniors' assisted living facility by my place. Driving by at night there is one window that looks like there is a rave going on inside. I finally investigated it closer up because it was so disconcerting. It turns out they have one of those Christmas light projectors at the window. Because the space is so small it literally looks like a strobe light going off at all hours of the night. For a while there I was concerned the old people were being given hallucinogenic drugs or something...