Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Jebby

They still had to dig up the entire length of the station along Cambie. Digger a bit wider for another 20 meters wouldn't have made a difference overall.

Actually they may have made a difference.

Remember that the station platform is a relatively level section of track.
If you lengthen the platform, that steepens the grade between the stations.

If the stations are closely spaced or on a steep hill (a longer platform digs deeper into the hillside), the logistics of station platform placement come into play.

Bombardier's proposal needed to be bored because the longer platforms (80m vs 50m) couldn't be built close to the surface with acceptable grades between stations. Then you get into deeper stations with more escalators, etc. (and no future station at 33rd because it would have been too deep).

Even the short Canada Line platforms as built are not level - they have a slight grade over their length.

That's also why there's no station at 16th Ave. - it wasn't feasible to insert a level section of track so close to the other stations without the whole section of the line being much deeper.

[casper]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I guess it could be lack of experience with PPPs.

I think they knew exactly what they were doing. They were building a legacy for the Olympics. They were trying to not overbuild to keep the costs down.

In 30 years we will see what we have. Probably a good case will be made for a line going along False Creek, down Arbutus that turns to go parallel to Marine Drive along the existing Fraser river tracks. Perhaps light rail technology that is mostly segregated from traffic.

In 30 years Surrey, New West and Richmond will have increased population. Would a West-East line in Richmond make more sense? I don't know.

[Reecemartin]

Supposedly Evergreen extension is seeing 30,000 riders per day how does everyone feel about that? What was Millenium Line ridership before Evergeen opened btw

[bluefox]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Supposedly Evergreen extension is seeing 30,000 riders per day how does everyone feel about that? What was Millenium Line ridership before Evergeen opened btw

To be fair, Desmond did say it's hard to tell how accurate those numbers are as they could have been amplified by all the inclement weather as people left their cars at home.

They're probably pretty accurate though, it's not like it's snowed every day since the line opened.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Jebby

It won't hit capacity for another 30-40 years. By that time it'll make more sense to create a second north-south line to relieve capacity than expand the Canada Line.

Today I took the Canada Line to YVR (en route to LAX) and thought about your comment earlier this month as to the volume of riders destined for the airport. Let me say for starters that I couldn't get a seat when I took the train at around 10: 30 am this (Monday) morning from the Broadway station (after visiting my doctor at the nearby VGH).

The train was packed with folks hauling luggage to the airport....obviously to catch either domestic or international flights. I wouldn't be surprised if the Canada Line exceeds its intended capacity sooner than expected.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Supposedly Evergreen extension is seeing 30,000 riders per day how does everyone feel about that? What was Millenium Line ridership before Evergeen opened btw

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Line#West_extension

In 2007, the non-interlined portion of the Millennium Line served an average of 70,000 passengers per day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Line

Before the building of the line, TransLink had projected that it would require a 100,000 passenger/day average to reach the "break even point". They also projected that it would take about three years for capacity to reach this point and that TransLink would be responsible for the loss. However, the Canada Line reached its projected ridership goal in late 2010, three years early.

I can attest to this fact. I've never rode on the Millennium and NOT been able to sit on the train, even at rush hour.

The Millennium Line was built much bigger than the Canada Line, is longer, and STILL only has a similar amount of passengers (because of Evergreen).

Ouch.



Millennium was honestly a waste of time in my opinion- much of it being a parallel line to the Expo though low density area or industrial land. We might have had Broadway by now if we'd decided to reroute the Lougheed Section of Millennium down Expo to connect to Broadway instead.


Oh well.

[nname]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I can attest to this fact. I've never rode on the Millennium and NOT been able to sit on the train, even at rush hour.

Maybe we took a different Millennium Line... I use the line daily and most of the time I do not have a seat until Lougheed or even Burquitlam...

Anyways, I would hesitate to make any conclusion about ridership until we know HOW it was counted. The Canada Line number is straightforward as the system is enclosed so every passenger on the train MUST be a Canada Line rider. But the Millennium Line number - as far as I know, for 2007 at least, a trip from Waterfront to Brentwood with transfer at Commercial would count as 1 Expo 1 Millennium rider, but a trip from New West to Brentwood would be solely an Expo line ridership. Since 2009, I believe both would no longer counted as a Millennium Line rider as Commercial-Broadway becomes a single station.

The good thing is... station by station boarding data should be released in a few month

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by nname

The good thing is... station by station boarding data should be released in a few month

If there's one thing the Compass Card is good for, it's this.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

I wonder if once the UBC extension is done whether this line will compete with Expo for ridership numbers....

Well, if you look at the B-Line going to BC, plus all the people the Canadian Line carries to Waterfront and then the Expo line carries to the Millennium Line, I would be that the ridership on both the Canada and Expo lines will drop when the connection between them is made. Once the B-Line is replaced with the Skytrain, the numbers will increase for the Millennium Line.

So, in short, yes, once the Extension is done to UBC, there is a good chance that the lines will be about the same numbers.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by nname

Maybe we took a different Millennium Line... I use the line daily and most of the time I do not have a seat until Lougheed or even Burquitlam...

Anyways, I would hesitate to make any conclusion about ridership until we know HOW it was counted. The Canada Line number is straightforward as the system is enclosed so every passenger on the train MUST be a Canada Line rider. But the Millennium Line number - as far as I know, for 2007 at least, a trip from Waterfront to Brentwood with transfer at Commercial would count as 1 Expo 1 Millennium rider, but a trip from New West to Brentwood would be solely an Expo line ridership. Since 2009, I believe both would no longer counted as a Millennium Line rider as Commercial-Broadway becomes a single station.

The good thing is... station by station boarding data should be released in a few month

I took it quite some time ago, admittedly. Probably pre '08.

Was pretty empty. Dunno if it's filled up now- since there were a lot fewer developments there back then.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by fredinno

I took it quite some time ago, admittedly. Probably pre '08.

Was pretty empty. Dunno if it's filled up now- since there were a lot fewer developments there back then.

[WarrenC12]

The M-Line was a bit of a white elephant when it was built. Ridership was very low.

But it was meant to be the first of a 3 part line, with the next 2 parts being what is now Evergreen, and the Arbutus/UBC extension. The NDP built the current M-Line through their ridings first, as I recall.

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Well, if you look at the B-Line going to BC, plus all the people the Canadian Line carries to Waterfront and then the Expo line carries to the Millennium Line, I would be that the ridership on both the Canada and Expo lines will drop when the connection between them is made. Once the B-Line is replaced with the Skytrain, the numbers will increase for the Millennium Line.

So, in short, yes, once the Extension is done to UBC, there is a good chance that the lines will be about the same numbers.

I don't know about that. I would venture there aren't that many trips of that nature currently using all three lines. Also, once the Millennium line is extended to UBC I see the ridership on all three lines going up because of network effects. All of a sudden public transit is going to much more desirable for a lot of people. I think Translink's study of the UBC extension up there with the Expo line in terms of ridership at about 250,000 passengers per day.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

They had to remove seats to reduce congestion on trains, I think we are alot further along than what was expected.

Did they really remove seats? One side of the section next to the articulated joint has always been seat-free to allow for bicycles and people with luggage - if that's what you're referring to then they didn't remove those seats because they were never there to begin with.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Did they really remove seats? One side of the section next to the articulated joint has always been seat-free to allow for bicycles and people with luggage - if that's what you're referring to then they didn't remove those seats because they were never there to begin with.

Only 2 trains had seats removed, and essentially they took out a set at the other doors to allow better movement of people in and out of the trains. It's most noticeable at the front of each car, where there are now only 8 seats facing the windshield vs 12 before.

Here is the link from TL: http://buzzer.translink.ca/2016/08/new-seating-pilot-project-for-canada-line-begins/

Here is a link from the Daily Hive with pictures: http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canada-line-seating-configuration

[urbancanadian]

^I had no idea about this. Thanks for the info!