Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[twoNeurons]

Japan's early Earthquake Warning system relies on thousands of P-Wave sensors out at sea and along fault lines. And that gives 30-90 seconds warning.

Every year, they have earthquake drill day where the whole country simulates an earthquake. They go all out with helicopter drills and all.

BC, to my knowledge, doesn't have such a system... as such we have no warning.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Japan's early Earthquake Warning system relies on thousands of P-Wave sensors out at sea and along fault lines. And that gives 30-90 seconds warning.

Every year, they have earthquake drill day where the whole country simulates an earthquake. They go all out with helicopter drills and all.

BC, to my knowledge, doesn't have such a system... as such we have no warning.

Soon...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...wide-earthquake-warning-system-1.3832239

In addition, you can follow this twitter which is a test system from UBC:

https://twitter.com/eew_bc

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Japan's early Earthquake Warning system relies on thousands of P-Wave sensors out at sea and along fault lines. And that gives 30-90 seconds warning.

Every year, they have earthquake drill day where the whole country simulates an earthquake. They go all out with helicopter drills and all.

BC, to my knowledge, doesn't have such a system... as such we have no warning.

I was curious because I saw this:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...-warning-sensor-up-and-running-1.3689186

You'd imagine they'd want to connect the Skytrain to such a system, it being driverless there needs to be something to allow a fast reaction in the case of an earthquake. You probably want trains at a standstill when shaking begins.

[Mac Write]

Can't OMC hit a kill switch manually (Big red flip button under a plastic box)? I am serious. Then they can at least have 10 seconds to confirm early warning and then slam on the emergency breaks.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Can't OMC hit a kill switch manually (Big red flip button under a plastic box)? I am serious. Then they can at least have 10 seconds to confirm early warning and then slam on the emergency breaks.

Most likely however if they don't get informed with enough lead time it wouldn't matter. If a quake hits under the Georgia Straight we may have 10 seconds between the P Waves and S Waves (signal that earthquake will happen and the serious shaking) so ideally the system could shut itself down.

[officedweller]

B.C. earthquake SkyTrain shutdown raises seismic safety questions
Expo and Millenium lines shut down for hours; Translink admits it had never seen anything like this before

CBC News Posted: Dec 30, 2015 2:17 PM PT| Last Updated: Dec 30, 2015 5:40 PM PT

Late night passengers trying to head home after the earthquake hit B.C. at 11:39 p.m. PT on Tuesday were slowed down for hours when SkyTrain services were temporarily suspended.

By Wednesday morning, both the Expo and Millenium lines were operating normally, but questions remained about why the light rail trains were stalled for hours.

The South Coast was hit with the most powerful earthquake the region has seen in years late Tuesday, and Translink officials admitted they had never experienced anything like this before.

"Although SkyTrain has been designed to withstand seismic events, the earthquake triggered guideway intrusion alarms along the Expo and Millennium lines," said a written release from Translink to CBC.

"In the interest of the public's safety, SkyTrain service was suspended and inspections of both lines were conducted, checking for possible damage to infrastructure or obstructions on the guideway."

Stations were also closed as crews inspected sections of the elevated guideway to ensure safety.

By 1 a.m. service resumed, but by then the train service was nearing the end of operational hours for the day.

An extra train was operated from King George to Waterfront to pick up any stranded passengers.

Canada Line more seismically advanced

The Canada Line — which connects Vancouver to the Vancouver International Airport (YVR) — was not affected as it is a newer system with more advanced seismic building codes.

"Canada Line continued to run unaffected. No intrusion alarms were triggered by the earthquake, likely because 70 per cent of the track is underground – reducing the probability of debris obstructing the track," read TransLink's release.

"TransLink will continue to have customer safety as a top priority, and the events of last night are a good reminder of the importance of being prepared," the release said.

SkyTrain is the oldest and one of the longest automated driverless light rapid transit systems in the world. The Expo and Millennium SkyTrain lines connect Vancouver with Burnaby, New Westminster and Surrey B.C.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...wn-earthquake-dec-28-translink-1.3384884

[jollyburger]

Do all trains in Japan get stopped or just the bullet trains during an earthquake event?

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

I'd kinda like Translink to paint up a set in a BC Electric livery, for funsies.

If you are invisioning the era with the yellow paint and chrome trim pieces then I'll be filing such an idea as a violation of the Geneva Convention for how ugly it would look.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Do all trains in Japan get stopped or just the bullet trains during an earthquake event?

Well seeing as how the vast majority of trains are driven by an operator Id imagine they would stop them, however Japan has extensive ATO so I'd imagine all lines would shut down.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...wn-earthquake-dec-28-translink-1.3384884

Not a huge fan of this article, read it before and while it says what it needs to it also gives 0 interesting information or what seismic event the lines are all designed for. I very much hope that extra work went into the YVR and Richmond sections of the Canada Line because in the case of a serious earthquake if Richmonds ground liquefies that could put the Canada Line out of service for months.

[Skygazer]

I'm particularly curious about the seismic resistance of the Expo Line. It was built in the mid-80s before they knew the full earthquake risk of the region and the areas near downtown seem fairly vulnerable - along the Grandview Cut, along the liquefaction zones near Main Street, and in the tunnels downtown.

[MIPS]

All the guideway segments on the False Creek Flats are standing on pile driven foundations. I do believe however up on the hill though the foundations are much shallower as they are sitting on solid rock.


Screengrab courtesy of Gem Productions

The tunnel was bored through solid rock, so it's more if the original tunnel ceiling will hold more than if the ground above will collapse into the tunnel. There was a large amount of geological surveying done before they started converting the tunnel.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Imo pretty concerning, when the big one hits I imagine being on the Skytrain might be one of the worst possible places, is we get a M9 on Cascadia or a M7 under Vancouver you can bet on the train derailing and if it has much speed possibly going off he guideway. I'm not really sure whether it's connected or not but if it isn't then that should really be a priority

The worst place to be would in a tunnel, followed by being at street-level. The safest place would be on the BC Ferries while out at sea.

If you're in a tunnel during a quake, there is absolutely no where to go. If you are below sea level you are as good as dead if liquefaction sends sand into the tunnel and blocks it.

At street level in a car or a LRV, you going to get thrown around like toys on a bed. So vehicles with a high center of gravity are going to roll over.

Elevated structures are going to sway, and the higher you go, the more they are going to sway. So being at the top of Trump tower or the Shangri-la would probably be the scariest place to be during an earthquake.

That said, consider how the Expo line is designed. It's a guideway, there is nowhere for the cars to go. During an earthquake it might be unsettling, but the cars aren't going to derail and go anywhere, even if they were in motion. The only real danger is being on the Canada Line's bridge or the SkyBridge and an earthquake shifts one of the support columns. Bridges tend to survive earthquakes, but they can't always be put back into service.

Note where the actual fault lines are around Metro Vancouver:


The vast majority of potential earthquakes are going to be produced by Vancouver Island motion. The Cascadia event starts at mid-island and goes down to Northern California. There is more danger to Metro Vancouver due to the silty soil, which amplifies shaking.

So the most likely scenario, at least for the Skytrain is that the columns sink, but not as fast as the buildings surrounding it. They're not likely to just crack and fall over, because that doesn't even happen in Japan. Look up Kobe 1995 's rail damage and compare the damage to the elevated road viaduct. Quite the contrast. The most destruction to rail was actually the depot (eg the OMC.)

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Kisai

The worst place to be would in a tunnel, followed by being at street-level. The safest place would be on the BC Ferries while out at sea.

If you're in a tunnel during a quake, there is absolutely no where to go. If you are below sea level you are as good as dead if liquefaction sends sand into the tunnel and blocks it.

At street level in a car or a LRV, you going to get thrown around like toys on a bed. So vehicles with a high center of gravity are going to roll over.

Elevated structures are going to sway, and the higher you go, the more they are going to sway. So being at the top of Trump tower or the Shangri-la would probably be the scariest place to be during an earthquake.

That said, consider how the Expo line is designed. It's a guideway, there is nowhere for the cars to go. During an earthquake it might be unsettling, but the cars aren't going to derail and go anywhere, even if they were in motion. The only real danger is being on the Canada Line's bridge or the SkyBridge and an earthquake shifts one of the support columns. Bridges tend to survive earthquakes, but they can't always be put back into service.

Note where the actual fault lines are around Metro Vancouver:


The vast majority of potential earthquakes are going to be produced by Vancouver Island motion. The Cascadia event starts at mid-island and goes down to Northern California. There is more danger to Metro Vancouver due to the silty soil, which amplifies shaking.

So the most likely scenario, at least for the Skytrain is that the columns sink, but not as fast as the buildings surrounding it. They're not likely to just crack and fall over, because that doesn't even happen in Japan. Look up Kobe 1995 's rail damage and compare the damage to the elevated road viaduct. Quite the contrast. The most destruction to rail was actually the depot (eg the OMC.)

Really good info thanks for that.

Riding the Skytrain never felt like the edges of the guideway were high enough to prevent the train going off if it had some speed, iirc there are sections with only a 1 foot tall edge.

[MIPS]

Even though the cars are made of aluminum and are (supposedly) prone to microlifting it is going to take a very large force to derail a train so hard that it would jump the guideway. SkyTrain wheel flanges are also larger than on regular trains due to above possibility of microlifting derailing the train on its own.
There was however that incident a while back where a train dropped a brake shoe and derailed the train behind it. Don't seem to recall that causing any problems besides part of the line shutting down for a few hours.

[Reecemartin]

To completely change the topic, I know we currently have two bike parkades, are more planned? Right now if feels almost like a novelty but with more it could actually become hugely useful. Also any expansion plan for Mobi? If it's not already at UBC that seems like a logical extension, as well as near transit stations ofc.

Gotta love cycling infrastructure, for pennies compared to rapid transit lines you can build huge amounts that will still be incredibly useful.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Not a huge fan of this article, read it before and while it says what it needs to it also gives 0 interesting information or what seismic event the lines are all designed for. I very much hope that extra work went into the YVR and Richmond sections of the Canada Line because in the case of a serious earthquake if Richmonds ground liquefies that could put the Canada Line out of service for months.

If the land liquefies around Richmond I doubt anyone will be using transit.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

To completely change the topic, I know we currently have two bike parkades, are more planned? Right now if feels almost like a novelty but with more it could actually become hugely useful.

I presume you mean the new bike parkades at Skytrain stations (currently at Main St and King George stations). I think the plans are when they do major renos at stations, they'll add parkades where possible. Commercial–Broadway and Metrotown stations are getting parkades.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I presume you mean the new bike parkades at Skytrain stations (currently at Main St and King George stations). I think the plans are when they do major renos at stations, they'll add parkades where possible. Commercial–Broadway and Metrotown stations are getting parkades.

Yes, hopefully the one at CB is huge.

[Sheba]

According to TransLink the Broadway one will hold "70+ bikes". All I can find for Metrotown is that it's part of Phase 3 (replacing the existing stationhouse - which they've already started despite the other stationhouses not being complete yet ).