Calgary International Airport II

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Acey

Except for the part where it looks just like their 90's Delta's livery.



From any kind of decent distance they look identical.

No, they don't look identical. If anything, it looks like Icelandair.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

The 31" pitch, before the new slim seats, was brutal. Now, Westjet is again comfortable (on the planes that have the new seats) I had no problems flying to Athens with 30" of pitch. At 6'1" I had legroom to spare. Given that, I'm sure I'll survive 29" pitch with similar seats (I just haven't had the opportunity to try it yet.



That's not the fault of Air Canada - it's clearly advertised. Air Canada's mainline fleet is very consistent. Rouge is very consistent. Express is very consistent. Knowing they're not the same thing is the responsibility of the consumer.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with the Rouge flights I've been on. I knew what to expect and the flights met my expectations very well. In fact, I got lucky and got a Preferred seat on my flight back to Toronto from Phoenix and was pleasantly surprised.

As for the branding issue I'm sure Air Canada is trying to promote the difference between mainline, Express and Rouge, it's just that most of the flying public doesn't care (this excludes frequent flyers and avgeeks like us on this forum).

The closest analogy I can come up with is the 1982-88 Cadillac Cimarron. The car was a rebadge job of a '82 Chevrolet Cavalier with some fancy options that was Cadillac's attempt to get the entry-level luxury market. Ostensibly, it was marketed as "Cimarron by Cadillac" - trying to position it as a brand unto itself. This distinction was lost on the buying public, who was expecting a Cadillac. Unfortunately for them, they got a dressed up Cavalier. It did lasting damage to the Cadillac brand.

I feel this is the issue is happening with Air Canada and Rouge.

With Westjet, you're getting one of two easily distinguishable flights. Either you're on a Q400 turboprop and you're getting the Encore experience or you're on a 737/767 and you're getting the mainline Westjet experience.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Like I said, I don't have a problem with the Rouge flights I've been on. I knew what to expect and the flights met my expectations very well. In fact, I got lucky and got a Preferred seat on my flight back to Toronto from Phoenix and was pleasantly surprised.

I'm 6'4". Rouge, for me, is utterly awful.

I literally cannot even fit in their regular economy seats. Not at all. I've tried, and it makes for a bloody painful flight. And I shudder to think what could happen in an emergency 'hard landing' when people's legs, knees and femurs are jammed in so tightly ... at least for passengers of above average height.

I actually flew on Rouge YYC-PHX just yesterday. Only reason: an Aeroplan points seat. (If I was buying, it wouldn't be Rouge.) And for this one, I had no choice but to pay extra for a "Preferred" seat - I think it was $48 more each way - simply so my knees wouldn't get crushed. That infuriates me, as there's absolutely nothing "preferred" about it other than avoiding physical discomfort. And even then, in row 12 (first row of economy) I couldn't even open my laptop to work after the guy in J in front of me reclined.

[jmt18325]

Since most airlines have a 31" pitch, I'd expect that you're cramped on most. At 6'1", I easily fit in the 30" pitch on a Rouge 767, and actually found it quite comfortable, other than the very limited recline.

[MalcolmTucker]

WestJet's old seats and pitch is one of the reasons I haven't flown with them since 2011. At 6'3" my knees were nearly always jammed right into the seat ahead, which until WestJet's tighter pitch (when they put in tvs?) had only experienced that on Air Transat. On Air Canada didn't have that problem, and Air Canada has been consistently price competitive.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

WestJet's old seats and pitch is one of the reasons I haven't flown with them since 2011. At 6'3" my knees were nearly always jammed right into the seat ahead, which until WestJet's tighter pitch (when they put in tvs?) had only experienced that on Air Transat. On Air Canada didn't have that problem, and Air Canada has been consistently price competitive.

The new seats are miles better. Thankfully, I haven't gotten the old seats since 2015.

Another unpleasant experience was Aegean with their plastic fantastic hard seatbacks.

By comparison, Rouge has cloth backed slim seats, but they're still thick enough to allow a small alcove for your knees. I could slide down in the seat and not hurt my knees.

[Tobuz]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Since most airlines have a 31" pitch, I'd expect that you're cramped on most. At 6'1", I easily fit in the 30" pitch on a Rouge 767, and actually found it quite comfortable, other than the very limited recline.

On every scheduled carrier I've been on (I've never flown charter) I've been just fine. It's not always generous, but I can fit safely and with 'sufficient' comfort. (The only one that was borderline was a recent UA Express CRJ. But still way better than Rouge.)

For lots of people - ie those under 6'-ish - Rouge is undoubtedly adequate provided that you know what you're in for. I'm a tall, slender guy, but (I hope) still well within the range of normal! That an airline would offer a product that many "normal range" people are physically unable to use is, IMHO, awful.

Air Canada mainline is great. Rouge is evil.

[MrBigStuff]

As for the new paint job on the AC planes - the black around the cockpit windows looks "goofy" and then there really is too much black on the planes. The black would have made a nice trim - but not big areas of solid black ( looks too gothic ).
Just thinking out loud.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Tobuz

I'm 6'4". Rouge, for me, is utterly awful.

I literally cannot even fit in their regular economy seats. Not at all. I've tried, and it makes for a bloody painful flight. And I shudder to think what could happen in an emergency 'hard landing' when people's legs, knees and femurs are jammed in so tightly ... at least for passengers of above average height.

I actually flew on Rouge YYC-PHX just yesterday. Only reason: an Aeroplan points seat. (If I was buying, it wouldn't be Rouge.) And for this one, I had no choice but to pay extra for a "Preferred" seat - I think it was $48 more each way - simply so my knees wouldn't get crushed. That infuriates me, as there's absolutely nothing "preferred" about it other than avoiding physical discomfort. And even then, in row 12 (first row of economy) I couldn't even open my laptop to work after the guy in J in front of me reclined.

I'm 6', but I'm lucky that my legs are relatively short. Like I mentioned before, there were lots of people who had to put their legs in the aisle to fit comfortably. I'd say a 4-5 hour flight would definitely be a limit there for me.

I've recommended that taller people avoid Rouge unless they have a short flight. I could definitely see how people would be rudely surprised when they board their flight though.

[The Chemist]

My last two long haul flights have been on Aeroflot (Shanghai-Moscow-Warsaw) and Garuda (Shanghai-Jakarta). The difference between the economy products on these two airlines is very noticeable. On Aeroflot, the seat pitch on their 777 is only 30", and it was really cramped on the 9 hour flight between Shanghai and Moscow, although the service and food were pretty decent. On the other hand, Garuda's A330 has the most generous seat pitch of any economy class product I've ever been on, at almost 34". It was really comfortable, definitely the best economy class product I've ever travelled on. Food and service was excellent, too.

[suburbia]

Somewhat of a random thought, and it may not make any sense whatsoever, but putting it out there ...

Has there been any testing to assess higher seats accompanied with fold-able footrests either it in seat itself or in the seat in front? Reason I ask is, such a model could maintain the modest / narrow pitch that airlines are going for now (to make flights more efficient) while also allowing for taller people somewhere to put their long legs.

It might not make sense in practice - not sure.

[Cage]

The Calgary and Southern Alberta aviation community lost two great pilots lastnight. Additionally many new young members of the aviation community are waking up to the one of the painful realities of this industry. That is when something goes south we all feel the loss, no matter where around the world the incident occurs. For that my thoughts and prayers are with the families of the pilots, students and staff at the MRU aviation school, and all members of this closenit community.

Here is the CBC news article for more information. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/pl...ast-calgary-instructors-killed-1.3981615

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Acey

The issue I see is that it'd make a heavier seat and a part that would be quite prone to breaking.

Good point. At the same time, I seem to recall footrests in the past (like 25-30 years ago). Seats are lighter now, but they are also better engineered. I guess if the idea makes philosophical sense, it then goes to the engineers to see if it would be viable from a weight and durability perspective with modern materials and thoughtful design.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Good point. At the same time, I seem to recall footrests in the past (like 25-30 years ago). Seats are lighter now, but they are also better engineered. I guess if the idea makes philosophical sense, it then goes to the engineers to see if it would be viable from a weight and durability perspective with modern materials and thoughtful design.

AC had footrests on the widebody economy seats from the 80s and 90s. These footrests were attached to the seat infront. However the footrests impeded the underseat storage so they were removed from future designs.

In the first/business class cabin AC had footrests attached to the pax seats, they folded down for inflight comfort.

Both designs of footrests did not favour the tall or people with exceptionally long legs.

[Canadian74]

You still have Y footrests on newer planes, mostly asian carriers..... they care a bit for Y too unlike north american carriers

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Canadian74

You still have Y footrests on newer planes, mostly asian carriers..... they care a bit for Y too unlike north american carriers

Yes, Garuda Indonesia has them. I haven't noticed them on any Chinese carriers, and I can't recall whether or not Cathay Pacific had them.

I don't use them, though, as my legs are too long.

But yes, I have to say that the experience in economy class is considerably better on ALL the Asian carriers I've flown on than it is on North American carriers. Hell, in China you still get food on domestic flights in Y!

[Blader]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Yes, Garuda Indonesia has them. I haven't noticed them on any Chinese carriers, and I can't recall whether or not Cathay Pacific had them.

I don't use them, though, as my legs are too long.

But yes, I have to say that the experience in economy class is considerably better on ALL the Asian carriers I've flown on than it is on North American carriers. Hell, in China you still get food on domestic flights in Y!

When footrests first appeared I was enamored. I dislike them now. Just another thing in my way.

[Cage]

latest update from routesonline has NRT staying with the 788.

deets here: http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airl...nada-s17-calgary-tokyo-aircraft-changes/

Air Canada in recent schedule update adjusted planned Calgary – Tokyo Narita operation for summer 2017 season. Planned operational aircraft as follow.

28MAR17 – 30JUN17 767-300ER
01JUL17 – 30SEP17 787-8
01OCT17 – 25OCT17 767-300ER

AC009 YYC1330 – 1435+1NRT 788 D
AC010 NRT1625 – 1045YYC 788 D

The Star Alliance member earlier this month briefly filed 787-9 operation from 01JUL17 to 30SEP17, however actual booking continues to display 787-8.

[thenoflyzone]

AC has canceled YYZ-IST indefinitely, so this might have something to do with YYC-NRT getting the dreamliner.

[Cage]

Collection of quotes from the 2016 Q4 and Full Year Management Discussion & Analysis for AC.
https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/ai...en/quarterly-result/2016/2016_MDA_q4.pdf

Originally Posted by Page 10

Air Canada possesses tools, processes and other competitive attributes to profitably pursue international route opportunities. It has the ability to appreciably increase international-to-international traffic through
its strategic international gateways in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and Calgary, and is broadening its network appeal through its membership in Star Alliance®, its trans-Atlantic revenue-sharing joint venture with United Airlines and Deutsche Lufthansa AG, referred to as A++, and through numerous codeshare and interline agreements.
.....
Geographically well-positioned hubs (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver and Calgary) with excellent in-transit facilities, accentuating the advantages of flying Air Canada through an improved travel experience for customers travelling to or from the U.S. from or to Asia and Europe.

Originally Posted by Page 11

In Calgary, Air Canada has relocated its international and U.S. operations to the new state-of-the-art terminal which now includes connection processes comparable to Air Canada’s other hubs. Given the improvements that are being made in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and Calgary, the airline is able to build its network from the U.S. to provide increased connection flows to its international flights.

Originally Posted by Page 13

A new concierge office, similar in design to Toronto Pearson, is underway for the Montreal concierge office in 2017 and is planned for Calgary and Ottawa. Additionally, Premium Agent service was launched in most Canadian hubs, offering an elevated level of personalized service at key customer touch points. Air Canada also introduced enhanced self-service bag drop for passengers with checked baggage at Calgary, with planned expansion to Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver, and continues to expand the availability of electronic boarding passes at more destinations.
.......
In 2016, Air Canada upgraded several of its international departures lounges (Calgary International Airport, Los Angeles International Airport, Montreal Trudeau and Paris-Charles de Gaulle) and plans to refurbish several more in 2017. Air Canada also plans to open a lounge at Saskatoon Diefenbaker Airport.

I'm going to guess that AC YYC International terminal will get a new Concierge office at some point in 2017.

Congrat's to YXE on getting a MLL.