PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by shadowbat2

Hope they are thinking about an alternate name....and fast

Haha true...

[City Wide]

Besides a difference in the types of population and the income difference, one other large difference is in the infra structure. In the City its generally old and not nec. well cared for either by gov't or private companies.

One other factor that hasn't really been touched on is how the suburbs depend on the City much more then the City depends on the suburbs. I have a friend my age, mid 60's, that I've known for over 40 years. We both used to live in the City, but after he married and had a family he moved west to where he grew up, on the main line. At the time he was bitching about investment tax issues.
In all these years he and his family have used the City and never directly paid one cent in taxes for doing so. Where I expect and encourage my taxes to be used for the same things that he uses. Used as in going to the zoo, going to the parks, concerts at the Mann center, regular trips to the museums, trips to see games in south Philly, the car show, the flower show, the orchestra, plays, trips to restaurants, time spent in the hospital. In that same time frame I've gone to the suburbs a couple of times to see gardens and maybe twice to the Byrnes Foundation, and maybe once a year to Valley Forge.
My taxes pay for what he has used in the City a lot more then what his taxes have paid for what I've used in the suburbs.
So if the City has to 'compete' with the suburbs for business, which we do, I wish that the suburbs had to help pay for everything in the City that is offered for 'free'.

[1487]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Besides a difference in the types of population and the income difference, one other large difference is in the infra structure. In the City its generally old and not nec. well cared for either by gov't or private companies.

One other factor that hasn't really been touched on is how the suburbs depend on the City much more then the City depends on the suburbs. I have a friend my age, mid 60's, that I've known for over 40 years. We both used to live in the City, but after he married and had a family he moved west to where he grew up, on the main line. At the time he was bitching about investment tax issues.
In all these years he and his family have used the City and never directly paid one cent in taxes for doing so. Where I expect and encourage my taxes to be used for the same things that he uses. Used as in going to the zoo, going to the parks, concerts at the Mann center, regular trips to the museums, trips to see games in south Philly, the car show, the flower show, the orchestra, plays, trips to restaurants, time spent in the hospital. In that same time frame I've gone to the suburbs a couple of times to see gardens and maybe twice to the Byrnes Foundation, and maybe once a year to Valley Forge.
My taxes pay for what he has used in the City a lot more then what his taxes have paid for what I've used in the suburbs.
So if the City has to 'compete' with the suburbs for business, which we do, I wish that the suburbs had to help pay for everything in the City that is offered for 'free'.

aside from parking taxes and sales tax (if they shop here, which is likely rare) there aren't many taxes suburbanites pay to the city unless they work here. If you look at the parts of the suburbs (excluding south jersey where taxes are just high generally) with working class or lower class populations you often find they have high tax burdens- especially in places with minimal business or industrial property like in eastern Delco where modest homes have killer tax bills. That's another huge difference between city and suburbs- the city is a county with uniform taxation and burden while the suburban counties are full of townships and boroughs and school districts with wildly different tax schemes. Cheltenham has a crushing real estate tax burden while Upper Merion doesn't because of the K of P mall and all the office properties. It's very hard to speak in general terms about suburban tax burdens. There are a few select nodes that have attracted lots of business investment- mainly in Montco and Chesco

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I disagree. The surrounding suburbs are indeed our comparators and competitors. We may never match the tax burden or other benefits there. But we don't need to. There are plenty of advantages to being in the city and companies who do or would want to. We don't have to match the suburbs to draw in some more of them. We just have to more closely approximate what they have going on out there so that the risk/benefit analysis shifts towards the city.

There are always companies that will want to be in the suburbs and where it makes sense to be in the suburbs depending on the leadership, workforce demographics, customer makeup/market, and products or services they offer. And that's fine. But there's some that could shift here if we were just doing a little bit better.

Everyone has a right to an opinion, but there are many who believe the city and region should focus more on attracting companies from OUTSIDE the region than competing within the region for the same players. Unfortunately, the business community doesn't seem to think big picture like that so they work to play the city and burbs off each other to get the best deal which leads to no net growth for the region. It must be stated that the REGION is slow growth in population and jobs. Sure Chester county has generally outperformed Philly and the region in recent years but that's not surprising considering it was mostly rural 25-30 years ago. Overall the performance of the PA suburbs is average at best. Office construction has generally not recovered post recession and rents are stagnant in most areas. When you exclude hot areas like Radnor there really isn't a ton going on other than musical chairs where firms hop from one office park to another.

[summersm343]

Sanctuary cities bill clears Pa. senate

Big trouble is a-brewing. $638 million would be cut in funding to Philadelphia. I have a serious question; If the state cuts funding to Philadelphia, can us in Philadelphia decide to stop paying state taxes?

Bizjournals:
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2017/02/08/sanctuary-cities-bill-pa-senate.html
Philly.com:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politi...d-to-Philly-other-Sanctuary-Cities-.html

[Knight Hospitaller]

^ I'm not sure it's "serious" if you end it with a smiley face, but the answer is unequivocally "no."

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Sanctuary cities bill clears Pa. senate

Big trouble is a-brewing. $638 million would be cut in funding to Philadelphia. I have a serious question; If the state cuts funding to Philadelphia, can us in Philadelphia decide to stop paying state taxes?

Bizjournals:
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2017/02/08/sanctuary-cities-bill-pa-senate.html
Philly.com:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politi...d-to-Philly-other-Sanctuary-Cities-.html

Say what you will about city council, but at least they don't aim to commit seppuku. Truly idiotic. Destroy the epicenter of your own economy to score an empty political point.

Haha and some thought they'd be willing to let us make some common sense pro business tax changes. Seems unlikely, the hate there is strong and profoundly stupid.

[Philly Kid]

Pretty clear that Wolf will veto this bill if it passes the House...do the R's have enough votes to override the veto?

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Say what you will about city council, but at least they don't aim to commit seppuku. Truly idiotic. Destroy the epicenter of your own economy to score an empty political point.

Haha and some thought they'd be willing to let us make some common sense pro business tax changes. Seems unlikely, the hate there is strong and profoundly stupid.

They truly hate Philadelphia. I don't get it. Is it jealousy? I'm in full support of the city succeeding from the state to join Delaware or New Jersey.

Why is this state always looking to cut funding to Philadelphia? Raise taxes in Philadelphia? Fuck Philadelphia! They do realize this city - and in turn the four surrounding suburban counties - is the ONLY reason this state isn't currently in a full blown decline.

If they're going to cut state funding to the city, I will start a class action lawsuit. If they're not going to fund the municipality we live in with our tax dollars, then we should be reimbursed for the taxes we are paying to the state which are not going back into the place we live.

[Knight Hospitaller]

^ Whatever the argument may be, if there is one, the State is sovereign, not the City. The latter has been granted some rights to govern and tax itself, but is answerable to the Sovereign. If you don't like Harrisburg, you've got to change Harrisburg. If the City has a right to disobey, then it has a right to the consequences.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Philly Kid

Pretty clear that Wolf will veto this bill if it passes the House...do the R's have enough votes to override the veto?

The PA house is currently veto proof. They have enough Republicans in override any vetoes.

[1487]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Sanctuary cities bill clears Pa. senate

Big trouble is a-brewing. $638 million would be cut in funding to Philadelphia. I have a serious question; If the state cuts funding to Philadelphia, can us in Philadelphia decide to stop paying state taxes?

Bizjournals:
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2017/02/08/sanctuary-cities-bill-pa-senate.html
Philly.com:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politi...d-to-Philly-other-Sanctuary-Cities-.html

i wish them luck in getting that signed by Wolf. They are wasting time.

[1487]

Originally Posted by summersm343

The PA house is currently veto proof. They have enough Republicans in override any vetoes.

That doesn't include senate and I wouldn't assume Philly area R's would ever support this nonsense.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 1487

That doesn't include senate and I wouldn't assume Philly area R's would ever support this nonsense.

The senate passed this bill 37-12. It's going to the house now which is veto proof.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

^ Whatever the argument may be, if there is one, the State is sovereign, not the City. The latter has been granted some rights to govern and tax itself, but is answerable to the Sovereign. If you don't like Harrisburg, you've got to change Harrisburg. If the City has a right to disobey, then it has a right to the consequences.

It may in fact, be illegal for the state to force a municipality to cooperate with federal law and immigration enforcement. This should be the responsibility of the federal government to ensure it is being enforced, not the state.

If the state and the federal government want stricter illegal immigration enforcement, they need to station more ICE agents in cities, to be able to attain any arrested illegal immigrants. They should not force the local police department of said municipality to now act as ICE agents and clog up holding cells.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by summersm343

It may in fact, be illegal for the state to force a municipality to cooperate with federal law and immigration enforcement. This should be the responsibility of the federal government to ensure it is being enforced, not the state.

If the state and the federal government want stricter illegal immigration enforcement, they need to station more ICE agents in cities, to be able to attain any arrested illegal immigrants. They should not force the local police department of said municipality to now act as ICE agents and clog up holding cells.

Apples and oranges. The Federal government's relationship with the locals is another matter. We're off topic enough already.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by summersm343

They truly hate Philadelphia. I don't get it. Is it jealousy? I'm in full support of the city succeeding from the state to join Delaware or New Jersey.

Why is this state always looking to cut funding to Philadelphia? Raise taxes in Philadelphia? Fuck Philadelphia! They do realize this city - and in turn the four surrounding suburban counties - is the ONLY reason this state isn't currently in a full blown decline.

If they're going to cut state funding to the city, I will start a class action lawsuit. If they're not going to fund the municipality we live in with our tax dollars, then we should be reimbursed for the taxes we are paying to the state which are not going back into the place we live.

Let's join New Jersey! We won't have to worry about the constitutional amendment to allow higher property tax on commercial properties, they will cut wage and corporate taxes, and bribe companies to locate here.

[jsbrook]

Delete. Never mind.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by summersm343

They truly hate Philadelphia. I don't get it. Is it jealousy? I'm in full support of the city succeeding from the state to join Delaware or New Jersey.

Why is this state always looking to cut funding to Philadelphia? Raise taxes in Philadelphia? Fuck Philadelphia! They do realize this city - and in turn the four surrounding suburban counties - is the ONLY reason this state isn't currently in a full blown decline.

If they're going to cut state funding to the city, I will start a class action lawsuit. If they're not going to fund the municipality we live in with our tax dollars, then we should be reimbursed for the taxes we are paying to the state which are not going back into the place we live.

Ok , maybe this is a different animal but , if the city is looking for more tax dollars and the state looks at Philly as a cash cow , what ever
happened to the Tasty Cake company , Domino Sugar plant , Budd Rail car plant , that German ship building corp. at the Navy base ,
Curtis Publishing and numerous other business' that I assume payed wage taxes , corporate taxes , state taxes and who knows what
other forms of income that both the city and state benefited from ..... but no longer reap the benefits of ..... Need more " good " paying
jobs ..... no jobs , no backbone ..... Think Philly is going to get better just with medical , educational and financial opportunities .

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

They truly hate Philadelphia. I don't get it. Is it jealousy? I'm in full support of the city succeeding from the state to join Delaware or New Jersey.

Why is this state always looking to cut funding to Philadelphia? Raise taxes in Philadelphia? Fuck Philadelphia! They do realize this city - and in turn the four surrounding suburban counties - is the ONLY reason this state isn't currently in a full blown decline.

If they're going to cut state funding to the city, I will start a class action lawsuit. If they're not going to fund the municipality we live in with our tax dollars, then we should be reimbursed for the taxes we are paying to the state which are not going back into the place we live.

Jealousy? Ha. Certainly not. Most Pennsylvanians think of Philadelphia as a crime ridden cesspool.

They're certainly not jealous. They're racist and not terribly bright.

But you're totally right, economically and in terms population decline Pennsylvania is a truly bottom tier state if not for the Philadelphia metro. But you can't talk sense to these people.