PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by allovertown

Yes. That part is truly ridiculous. Sounds like they have planning to move for awhile and used the opportunity to take some politically motivated shots on their way out the door.

Exactly, DiLella has been down on the city for years. He doesn't even even develop in Philly.

It is disheartening to watch a bunch of men on a forum about tall buildings argue about how terrible a pay equity bill is.

[1487]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Taxes are lower now than they were, but it's not good enough. Period. We're not competitive. We're losing out to other places like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, San Francisco, Boston, NYC, etc.

We'll never be able to compete with NYC, but we sure as hell should be competing with the others.

The fact that company after company continues to site the poor business environment in Philadelphia and the state of Pennsylvania due to taxes and silly laws for reasons why they are leaving, or reasons why Philadelphia is not attracting new companies and jobs at a faster clip is just more of a reason to believe it.

...and you continue to defend the city as if they're doing something right? They're just as bad as the idiots in the state legislature.

These other cities are doubling, if not tripling our job and population growth numbers.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...ving-Center-City-for-Newtown-Square.html

Slightly different story here. I tried to tell you this yesterday but too many know it alls on here. They are leaving for lifestyle reasons and nothing about the tax environment was going to stop them. Unless the philly school district and CC changed overnight to resemble Newtown Square they didn't want to be there. They obviously don't want to walk past homeless and lower class people on the way to the office anymore or face long commutes from their suburban manses. IN a big city someone is ALWAYS coming and going. ALL that matters are overall numbers of jobs- period. Focusing on one company story vs the overall picture is ridiculous. The state bill should make the city more competitive- I'm well aware of the numbers so no lecturing needed. I can read a CCD report just like you can believe it or not. The city (even at is less than optimal growth) is adding more residents and jobs than any of the surrounding counties which is pretty remarkable considering the school district issues. Those are facts just as much as your oft touted CCD job growth facts.

[japmes]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Now back to construction------------I noticed that CHOP's new building on its main campus, that just opened within the last year (if not a lot more recently then that) has a full sized crane parked on its roof. Is that just a left over from when it was built and I just haven't noticed it before?
I know this building was designed to allow additional floors to be added, but I'd be very pleasantly surprised if CHOP was adding square footage so soon after the building opened.
Does anyone know anything about this?

It was erected within the last month, I think. I've been wondering why, too.

[SEFTA]

delete

[MadhattersLT]

Maybe that chop building is one of those ones that they had plans on adding floors???

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by MadhattersLT

Maybe that chop building is one of those ones that they had plans on adding floors???

For what its worth-------from a CHOP write up back in 2013

"The 12-story, multi-phase building will allow the potential addition of another 4 floors for a total of 875,000 square feet, if called for in the future. The Buerger Center will be environmentally friendly, with a targeted LEED Silver certification from the U.S. Green Building Council. Five levels of underground parking will accommodate 1,500 vehicles, enough for the entire South Campus."

so, maybe another 4 floors------time will tell

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Boston is the only city on your list I think that is worth using as a comparison to Philly and I would be interested in knowing how we stack up against them. I honestly don't have any idea but I have a hard time imagining that they are so different. The state of Ma. is well known for its high taxes.
I'd also like to see how Philly compares to Chicago, which has problems both similar to and in many ways greater then ours, but continues to attract business to the City, both from the suburbs and from down state and out of state.
But I think you might have missed my main point, that being a City can never be 'business friendly' enough to satisfy most businesses, unless the city sells out completely and becomes Houston. If all Comcast (or you fill in the name) cared about was taxes and simple bottom line numbers, they wouldn't be headquartered in Philly (or in NYC!). All I'm saying is that being 'business friendly' is just one of many drums to be pounding on, and in my opinion, not even the most important.
My points about taxes and regs comes from my own experience. Larger businesses that I know don't seem to have the same issues. But just about all businesses are going to bitch about the heavy hand of gov't. That is just something that they do. It comes as naturally as seeking tax loopholes and ways to avoid paying parking tickets, its a fact of life. When one signs up for Business Privilege account its almost like you get a handbook on how to bitch about how bad the City is.
If we could get our City fathers and mothers to get off their fat asses and care half as much about the good of the whole City as they do about their next election I believe the quality of life that is offered here would be well worth not having the lowest corporate tax rates. (term limits anyone?)
A race to the bottom to become the most business friendly is one I hope the City does not enter. Its one that by definition can only be lost, never won.

Last I'll say on it, as we are largely off-topic. As in most things, moderation is a good practice. We don't need to engage in a race to the bottom to be the "most" business friendly city. But we are currently one of the least. Perhaps more importantly, the climate here is a lot worse than the suburbs and preferentially drives business to surrounding suburbs. All of this is hurting us.

[City Wide]

[QUOTE=1487;7703474]http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...ving-Center-City-for-Newtown-Square.html

I went to Equus' web site and found out that the site they are moving to, the Ellis Preserve, a 215 acre site outside of Newtown Square, is one of their own developments. Their portfolio is full of suburban crap, so it doesn't surprise me that they would want to move where they could be their own landlord. So they are moving so they will be in an area what will help with "retaining talented professionals" and this is nearly the very same reason some companies are moving into, or opening offices in CC.
Is there a lesson in here? Maybe its that both views are somewhat true, and companies do what they want and come up with reasons to fit their desires.
I'd like to know what if any behind the curtain type of discussions a company like this could have with the City and/or NJ. In this age of handouts and corporate welfare I'd be surprised if there wasn't some kind of a deal to be made, somewhere.

[br323206]

My perspective is that overall tax burden is not the issue so much as regressive nature of Philly's taxes. Check this link for an explanation:

http://www.governing.com/gov-institute/voices/col-philadelphia-tax-structure-business-burden.html

[summersm343]

Well, between the 100 jobs from Iron Hill and the 23-26 jobs Cloudamize will add by the end of the year, this should make up for the loses from Equus moving to Newtown Square.

Cloudamize doubles staff, plans more hires

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Cloudamize-doubles-staff-plans-new-hires.html

Iron Hill to open brew pub in Center City's East Market mixed-use complex

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/re...Citys-East-Market-mixed-use-complex.html

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Last I'll say on it, as we are largely off-topic. As in most things, moderation is a good practice. We don't need to engage in a race to the bottom to be the "most" business friendly city. But we are currently one of the least. Perhaps more importantly, the climate here is a lot worse than the suburbs and preferentially drives business to surrounding suburbs. All of this is hurting us.

is there any recent evidence that supports the notion that the city is a net loser of jobs to the suburbs? I haven't seen much. People may FEEL that way but I don't know that reality supports that. Most firms expanding or re-leasing in the burbs have been there for many years. Recent defections that I know about are Sunoco and now Equus- contrast that with all the burb to city moves and the city firms expanding and I'm not sure we are losing the battle.

[1487]

Originally Posted by br323206

My perspective is that overall tax burden is not the issue so much as regressive nature of Philly's taxes. Check this link for an explanation:

http://www.governing.com/gov-institute/voices/col-philadelphia-tax-structure-business-burden.html

That article captures the reality but that is not what is being mentioned by the business interest groups who complain about the tax burden. We also need to recognize that comparing Philly to suburbs is a bit different than other large cities. I doubt many affluent suburban counties have the same tax burdens as larger cities that deal with significant populations of poor people. While matching Monto on taxes sounds great, don't think it's ever likely. It's better to aim for competitiveness with peer cities. PA and Philly (due to same constitutional limit) have flat income taxes which are definitely regressive. But that's affecting lower and middle income earners the most- not the demographic the GPCC is likely to care about or advocate for.

There is always a cost. CCD points out how cities like NYC rely on property taxes for revenue far more than Philly. Fine- but those costs along with the cost of real estate mean it's much pricier to rent office space in NYC vs here. We may be slightly less competitive than NYC on taxes but we surely have them beat on overhead costs when it comes to being in rented space.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 1487

is there any recent evidence that supports the notion that the city is a net loser of jobs to the suburbs? I haven't seen much. People may FEEL that way but I don't know that reality supports that. Most firms expanding or re-leasing in the burbs have been there for many years. Recent defections that I know about are Sunoco and now Equus- contrast that with all the burb to city moves and the city firms expanding and I'm not sure we are losing the battle.

There is no clearly good way to actually measure that. One point of comparison could be to other cities with less onerous tax (regressive) and regulatory environments seeing a much greater INFLUX of suburban companies. We are seeing some. At least city outposts. But I think a lot less than other cities and a lot less than we could be. We are entering or already in the age of cities. People want to live here. This should translate into more companies following to tap the talent pool.

Anecdotally, I am personally friends with dozens of small or midsize business owners who would prefer to be in the city, either because they personally prefer it or want to tap the talent pool. But they remain in the suburbs for tax reasons and to avoid greater red tape in operating. For some, the myriad of benefits to being in the city outweighs the drawbacks. But for many others, it does not.

I don't have them handy, but there have also been systematic studies that conclude the wage tax and BIRT depress job growth. And I believe they quantify it. Economists did quantify the job increase we could expect by increasing tax on commercial properties and a corresponding drop in wage tax and the BIRT. I think it was something like 80,000.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 1487

That article captures the reality but that is not what is being mentioned by the business interest groups who complain about the tax burden. We also need to recognize that comparing Philly to suburbs is a bit different than other large cities. I doubt many affluent suburban counties have the same tax burdens as larger cities that deal with significant populations of poor people. While matching Monto on taxes sounds great, don't think it's ever likely. It's better to aim for competitiveness with peer cities. PA and Philly (due to same constitutional limit) have flat income taxes which are definitely regressive. But that's affecting lower and middle income earners the most- not the demographic the GPCC is likely to care about or advocate for.

There is always a cost. CCD points out how cities like NYC rely on property taxes for revenue far more than Philly. Fine- but those costs along with the cost of real estate mean it's much pricier to rent office space in NYC vs here. We may be slightly less competitive than NYC on taxes but we surely have them beat on overhead costs when it comes to being in rented space.

I disagree. The surrounding suburbs are indeed our comparators and competitors. We may never match the tax burden or other benefits there. But we don't need to. There are plenty of advantages to being in the city and companies who do or would want to. We don't have to match the suburbs to draw in some more of them. We just have to more closely approximate what they have going on out there so that the risk/benefit analysis shifts towards the city.

There are always companies that will want to be in the suburbs and where it makes sense to be in the suburbs depending on the leadership, workforce demographics, customer makeup/market, and products or services they offer. And that's fine. But there's some that could shift here if we were just doing a little bit better.

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

There is no clearly good way to actually measure that. One point of comparison could be to other cities with less onerous tax (regressive) and regulatory environments seeing a much greater INFLUX of suburban companies. We are seeing some. At least city outposts. But I think a lot less than other cities and a lot less than we could be. We are entering or already in the age of cities. People want to live here. This should translate into more companies following to tap the talent pool.

Anecdotally, I am personally friends with dozens of small or midsize business owners who would prefer to be in the city, either because they personally prefer it or want to tap the talent pool. But they remain in the suburbs for tax reasons and to avoid greater red tape in operating. For some, the myriad of benefits to being in the city outweighs the drawbacks. But for many others, it does not.

I don't have them handy, but there have also been systematic studies that conclude the wage tax and BIRT depress job growth. And I believe they quantify it. Economists did quantify the job increase we could expect by increasing tax on commercial properties and a corresponding drop in wage tax and the BIRT. I think it was something like 80,000.

It's all speculation at this stage. If the tax change goes through we will see. CCD has an agenda so obviously any study they release is supportive of their agenda. I do think it will help, but the HUGE gains they talk about seem far fetched in my book, My issue with the CCD perspective is that TAXES are the primary and only critical criteria companies evaluate when making decisions. Not true at all and CCD has downplayed the slow, but steady inflow of companies who are clearly saying TALENT is key to where they locate.

I think it's a dumb time to consider leaving the city. So many major things going on- the PA tax change, rehabbed center city concourse, new LOVE park, the rail park, the FOP, the Navy Yard, and East Market, etc. I see that Kenney is establishing some sort of fund to entice companies in the burbs to create branch office in Philly like Vanguard. They will cover $30k in costs to entice firms to do this.

[summersm343]

Israeli companies find much to like about Philadelphia, 6 have now set up HQs here

Two more Israeli companies have established U.S. headquarters in Philadelphia, making it six since the beginning of last year.

Both companies initiated soft launches last fall, joining four other Israeli companies that set up shop here in the first half of 2016.

GB WAWA, short for Green Building Wall to Wall, is a consulting and design company for sustainable buildings. The company, which coordinates and leads green projects and manages LEED certification, moved into a small location at 1735 Market St. in September.

The second Israeli company to choose Philadelphia for its U.S. headquarters is Golden Number Solutions (GNS), an aerospace defense and aviation company owned and managed by a team of former high-ranking officers of the Israeli Air Force. It provides advanced maintenance, logistics, and fleet management programs to government and private air operators. The company set up operations at 434 Fairmount Ave. in Northern Liberties late last year.

GB WAWA and GNS join four other Israeli companies that set up Philadelphia operations last year, according to Vered Nohi, executive director of the Philadelphia-Israel Chamber of Commerce.

-Simlat, which provides training services for operating unmanned vehicles, opened an office at Drexel University in January. It first became connected to Philadelphia during then-Mayor Nutter’s November 2013 visit to Israel, which also included Drexel President John Fry.

-Pango, a tech company that recently launched a mobile parking app in the region, opened an office at Pipeline, a shared working space in Center City’s Graham Building, and works with the Philadelphia Parking Authority.

-Cogress, a real estate investment company, opened its U.S. headquarters at 105 N. 2nd St. in Old City.

-Pico, a photo-sharing technology company that visited Philadelphia in September 2015 and looked close to opening an office here, initially chose to expand in Europe instead of the United States but then chose to come here.

Nohi said PICC expects seven more companies to consider Philadelphia this year for a U.S. headquarters or a manufacturing facility.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...i-companies-find-much-to-like-about.html

[Larry King]

Love to see more Israeli's set up shop here, let's get that Philly to Tel Aviv direct flight back up and running

[Daario]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Israeli companies find much to like about Philadelphia, 6 have now set up HQs here



http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...i-companies-find-much-to-like-about.html

While I'm not a huge fan of Israel politically, I'm glad more of their companies are liking Philly. Business is business as far as I'm concerned, and especially for Philly.

Also I know Teva has a huge presence in the Philly metro, but have they shown any inclination to setting up shop here in Philly? Would be big news if they did.

[jjv007]

Originally Posted by Daario

While I'm not a huge fan of Israel politically, I'm glad more of their companies are liking Philly. Business is business as far as I'm concerned, and especially for Philly.

Also I know Teva has a huge presence in the Philly metro, but have they shown any inclination to setting up shop here in Philly? Would be big news if they did.

Interestingly, Benjamin Netanyahu grew up in the Philly area (Cheltenham, where I lived before college). Funny that the township is now extremely liberal. Good to see Israel investing in Philly.

[shadowbat2]

GB WAWA, short for Green Building Wall to Wall, is a consulting and design company for sustainable buildings. The company, which coordinates and leads green projects and manages LEED certification, moved into a small location at 1735 Market St. in September.

Hope they are thinking about an alternate name....and fast