Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[TheWire]

Originally Posted by Makid

This is true.

With the CCH progressing, I could see that 1 part of the negotiations is to have additional exhibit space within the Salt Palace. It could be one of those deals where work has to begin on the expansion within 2 years of the CCH being completed or similar.

This has been #2 on their list of needs for a while and those in the tents are getting more concerned as they are seen less than those within the center.

The open space and land issues are a bit more complicated than in previous years.

I don't know the current polling but from previous years, 75% of Attendees and 66% of Exhibitors want the show to stay in SLC for many numerous reasons. I do know that OR polls both Attendees and Exhibitors each year.

I do think OR would like some kind of gesture towards open space and I also think they want a timeline for an expansion of the Salt Palace.

So the 2 aren't that far apart (State and OR) it is just getting there that may be tricky as each group would need to come away as being seen as the victor.

I think that these things are all pretty on point, but fact is, I really think that if there is no attempt made to address the public lands issue politically very quickly, none of these other factors are going to matter. The president of Patagonia was quoted in the Trib today, in an announcement that they are boycotting OR due to the state's Bears Ear's opposition, that they are actively going to recruit other large companies to join them in the boycott as long as it stays in Utah. If this happens and companies boycott OR, negotiating a better situation is useless. Their hand will be forced to move to save their profitability. This is becoming a huge dumpster fire that is getting zero response from legislators and the state's congressional delegation.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by TheWire

I think that these things are all pretty on point, but fact is, I really think that if there is no attempt made to address the public lands issue politically very quickly, none of these other factors are going to matter. The president of Patagonia was quoted in the Trib today, in an announcement that they are boycotting OR due to the state's Bears Ear's opposition, that they are actively going to recruit other large companies to join them in the boycott as long as it stays in Utah. If this happens and companies boycott OR, negotiating a better situation is useless. Their hand will be forced to move to save their profitability. This is becoming a huge dumpster fire that is getting zero response from legislators and the state's congressional delegation.

I agree. The Gov has a meeting next week with the Outdoor groups and OR to discuss keeping them here.

I do think that it may come down to a bill needing to pass the Legislature to welcome the monuments. I do feel that anything short of that we stand a good chance to lose OR forever.

This would cause close to 3,000 people to lose their jobs as support and more for OR. The indirect jobs could be even higher but only if another large convention doesn't come in on a semi-permanent basis. That won't happen without the CCH and probably not without an expansion of the Salt Palace.

There are close to 10,000 jobs that rely on the OR show for their survival. Most don't even know it because they work in warehousing, logistics or hospitality.

[UTPlanner]

You can blame city and county leaders all that you want for the lack of progress with the CCH but frankly I think that the blame is being pointed in the wrong direction. City and county leaders found local and state funding for the project, have been open and willing to negotiate utilizing county/city owned properties as potential sites and have been willing to negotiate zoning regulations. The reason the project has not progressed has been that no major hotel chain was willing to sign onto the project and as of yet no financial institution will provide funding. In short, no major private investor has found promise in the idea of a CCH. I'm not saying that they are right or wrong but the risk has been too great for them up to this point.

I also wanted to quickly respond to an earlier comment that all "we" build are six story hotels around the city. I do not think that whomever made the comment understands how development works. Not to be rude but I don't think that any of "us" build hotels at all. These are private developments. The reason they are being built in the manner in which they are cannot be blamed on the city or its residents. The city's zoning is not stifling them, they are building these projects as a direct response to the current market for hotels in the SLC area. It's that simple. Hoteliers want to make money and if they think a taller, larger product will make more money they will build it.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by asies1981

Digging has started for the C9 Flats in Central Ninth. I'm excited about this project as it will be a boon to the area south of the onramp.

How exactly are they allowed the 1.6 parking space per unit? That zone has a parking maximum, and that ratio far exceeds the ratio.

UTPlanner, do you know who ultimately approved this project with that parking ratio, and how exactly it got approved when over the limit?

[airportvids]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

You can blame city and county leaders all that you want for the lack of progress with the CCH but frankly I think that the blame is being pointed in the wrong direction. City and county leaders found local and state funding for the project, have been open and willing to negotiate utilizing county/city owned properties as potential sites and have been willing to negotiate zoning regulations. The reason the project has not progressed has been that no major hotel chain was willing to sign onto the project and as of yet no financial institution will provide funding. In short, no major private investor has found promise in the idea of a CCH. I'm not saying that they are right or wrong but the risk has been too great for them up to this point.

I also wanted to quickly respond to an earlier comment that all "we" build are six story hotels around the city. I do not think that whomever made the comment understands how development works. Not to be rude but I don't think that any of "us" build hotels at all. These are private developments. The reason they are being built in the manner in which they are cannot be blamed on the city or its residents. The city's zoning is not stifling them, they are building these projects as a direct response to the current market for hotels in the SLC area. It's that simple. Hoteliers want to make money and if they think a taller, larger product will make more money they will build it.

You missed the point to my comment. These big convention goers want to stay at a single mega hotel, not have to be spread out as far south as Provo and as far north as Ogden staying at a bunch of tiny hotels.
Downtown SLC needs a CCH in the worst kind of way and the demand is there. And to say that no developer is willing to develop one is BS. I don't buy that excuse. Anybody with half a brain would know that SLC's hotel market is a gold mine and to simple say, nobody is willing to invest doesn't make doesn't make any sense. Clearly there's more going on here. Likely stupid Utah politics bullshit again. If we ( and when I say "we", not shit I'm not talking about us on the forum, but our leaders ) would remove all the stupid ass mormon laws, we ( again not us , but utah as a whole ) will be a much more attractive place.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by airportvids

You missed the point to my comment. These big convention goers want to stay at a single mega hotel, not have to be spread out as far south as Provo and as far north as Ogden staying at a bunch of tiny hotels.
Downtown SLC needs a CCH in the worst kind of way and the demand is there. And to say that no developer is willing to develop one is BS. I don't buy that excuse. Anybody with half a brain would know that SLC's hotel market is a gold mine and to simple say, nobody is willing to invest doesn't make doesn't make any sense. Clearly there's more going on here. Likely stupid Utah politics bullshit again. If we ( and when I say "we", not shit I'm not talking about us on the forum, but our leaders ) would remove all the stupid ass mormon laws, we ( again not us , but utah as a whole ) will be a much more attractive place.

What "stupid ass mormon laws" are deterring a developer from building the CCH?

[airportvids]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

What "stupid ass mormon laws" are deterring a developer from building the CCH?

Zion curtain, alcohol limits just to name a few. If we were like any other state Salt Lake would be just as big as Denver. But people pass us up for other cities.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by airportvids

Zion curtain, alcohol limits just to name a few. If we were like any other state Salt Lake would be just as big as Denver. But people pass us up for other cities.

The Zion Curtain and alcohol limits (what is this referring to exactly, the meters, no sidecar with a cocktail?) aren't going to deter a developer from using up to $75 million in tax incentives and the potential for donated property, if the numbers pencil out. Why not go ahead and throw in "no building can be taller the the COB" too?

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

You can blame city and county leaders all that you want for the lack of progress with the CCH but frankly I think that the blame is being pointed in the wrong direction. City and county leaders found local and state funding for the project, have been open and willing to negotiate utilizing county/city owned properties as potential sites and have been willing to negotiate zoning regulations. The reason the project has not progressed has been that no major hotel chain was willing to sign onto the project and as of yet no financial institution will provide funding. In short, no major private investor has found promise in the idea of a CCH. I'm not saying that they are right or wrong but the risk has been too great for them up to this point.
...

Is it because there is only one major convention that comes here? Comiccon and fancon whatever are mostly local attendees and don't stay at hotels.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

The Zion Curtain and alcohol limits (what is this referring to exactly, the meters, no sidecar with a cocktail?) aren't going to deter a developer from using up to $75 million in tax incentives and the potential for donated property, if the numbers pencil out. Why not go ahead and throw in "no building can be taller the the COB" too?

The liquor laws are ridiculous. Apparently a green card is not a good enough form of ID to get into a bar around here. Even though they are more secure than a state ID card. So I guess that could make conventions less appealing for people who travel here from outside of the country.

Also on a sidenote they have seriously got to do something about the liquor store situation around here. The parking situation at the second W. liquor store on Friday and Saturday evenings is ridiculous... sometimes it even causes traffic problems. There are other liquor stores but they close at ridiculous times. I honestly don't understand why nobody can sue the state of Utah... at a bare minimum I think they should be sued for controlling the market and then abusing their power by price gouging. You can get a six pack of Mike's hard lemonade at the grocery store for like eight dollars. At the liquor store it seems like it's over $16. And I know for a fact that the alcohol content is not making the price difference at all... because there about the same price up in Evenston.

Somebody should organize all the major restaurant chains... and have them close all of their locations until the liquor laws are changed.

[ThePusherMan]

Originally Posted by asies1981

Digging has started for the C9 Flats in Central Ninth. I'm excited about this project as it will be a boon to the area south of the onramp.

Man. What a bummer. Killing an entire half block of a up and coming neighborhood with zero street engagement. This is in Derek Kitchen's hood (and where his new restaurant is). Bet he is super unhappy with this thing.

[Orlando]

I just got some awesome news about the Regent Street Hotel. I emailed the rep from Cushman Wakefield. He said there are no funding problems and construction is expected to start in the spring.

[ThePusherMan]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

What "stupid ass mormon laws" are deterring a developer from building the CCH?

Although I don't think it is the only factor, our liquor laws absolutely hurt the attractiveness of our city for conventions, tourism, new business and whatever else. People would rather fly into Denver and drive hours to a ski resort than come to Utah because of the perception of Salt Lake because of our liquor. It is just about the only thing that we get national news coverage about other than refusing new national monuments. Someone new needs to be in charge of the states image. Dare I say, a non-mormon. *gasp*

I work in the service industry and customers from out of town are constantly pleasantly surprised by our city which is awesome. What isn't awesome is that most of those people only came to Utah because they were forced to come. We need people to want to be here. The reason people don't want to be here is because of our silly laws written by our legislature that is predominantly mormon, and by the way, do not necessarily represent the will of the people. The zion curtain is opposed by a majority of Utahans across party, city, and religious lines.

[Viperlord]

I'm getting a lot of complaints and/or requests for moderations.

Just a reminder to all of you....

There is no trolling on the forum threads. Please do not post threads meant to stir up arguments and off-topic subjects.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

How exactly are they allowed the 1.6 parking space per unit? That zone has a parking maximum, and that ratio far exceeds the ratio.

UTPlanner, do you know who ultimately approved this project with that parking ratio, and how exactly it got approved when over the limit?

That was the only official stall number I have found. In their submittal to council and planning staff they listed 118 stalls, but the unit count was listed at 89 and those numbers were crossed out to indicate they aren't the official numbers (they've upped it the unit count to 97, but it was as high as 105 at one point, which still would have a 1.4 to 1 ratio). I've looked into RMU and I haven't seen a parking maximum. Regardless of the total stall count, there will be more parking stalls than units and the ground floor will be parking instead of active uses.

[asies1981]

Originally Posted by Orlando

I just got some awesome news about the Regent Street Hotel. I emailed the rep from Cushman Wakefield. He said there are no funding problems and construction is expected to start in the spring.

I too have been told that construction should start this spring, the Regent will be a nice addition to the city.

[Viperlord]

The Block 22 Project (two - 10 story office buildings)

has renderings & site plans available at the link below:

They are under the "record info" tab and then the "attachments" link. and then download the pdfs.

https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...91&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

I'm not too thrilled with the layout of the site plan for these two twin buildings. I think that the design could be laid out a lot better. The parking garages I think could be shifted to the north a bit to allow for a mid-block access way running through the block. I hope that the city design departments really encourages the developer to modify the site design a bit to break up the block. Those parking structures just seem to "block" the whole circulation of the block.

[Marvland]

You guys all need to calm down. OR is going nowhere. Everybody on the inside knows it. Patagonia and Black diamond know it. And to the dude who keeps saying how much more amazing Denver is than Salt Lake needs to go to Denver and try to ski. The Airport is in Kansas. City center is in the plains. The access to national parks and incredible public land is way worse and it's a good city. San Fransisco it is not. We need to aim higher than Denver. OR is great but it is nowhere near the only convention that comes to Salt Lake. CCH isn't stalled out on financing, it's stalled out on the deal. Banks won't say a word without a piece of dirt and some drawings. They are working on a very tricky assemblage. The Zion Curtain is coming down. Everybody needs to have a drink and put on some soul music.

For the record, I consider "becoming the next Denver" to be a demonstrably bad outcome. I don't want to be Denver. Or Portland. I want to be Salt Lake fucking City.

[airportvids]

Originally Posted by Viperlord

The Block 22 Project (two - 10 story office buildings)

has renderings & site plans available at the link below:

They are under the "record info" tab and then the "attachments" link. and then download the pdfs.

https://aca.slcgov.com/Citizen/Cap/CapDe...91&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

I'm not too thrilled with the layout of the site plan for these two twin buildings. I think that the design could be laid out a lot better. The parking garages I think could be shifted to the north a bit to allow for a mid-block access way running through the block. I hope that the city design departments really encourages the developer to modify the site design a bit to break up the block. Those parking structures just seem to "block" the whole circulation of the block.

The link says I need an account to view.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by Marvland

.

For the record, I consider "becoming the next Denver" to be a demonstrably bad outcome. I don't want to be Denver. Or Portland. I want to be Salt Lake fucking City.

Amen to this. We aren't anything like those cities. We have our own style. Our own culture. Yeah, it might not be as "hip" or "happening" but we are coming along into our own.