ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[Libertarian]

Testarossa and 3000,
Both of you are partly right. The key is to integrate and open up the Gulch as a link to MB stadium, Philips Arena, Marta Five Points, and Underground. There is great potential. The Hawks investors and Underground investors are looking for a synergistic approach. The city/state would have to insist the thing would need to be open and accessible. I think one key point in casino design evolution which would help avoid an "Atlantic City" effect and another empty shell in a few years, avoiding the insular effect, would be to give each gaming opportunity (table games, gaming machines, Keno, etc.) it's own ingress from the street and discrete character. This would allow hotel shuttle buses to make dropoffs to the game venue of choice and avoid the masses. The husband could hit the tables and the wife could choose something else, and meet up later for food or shopping at Underground or CNN Centre. The Five Points Marta connection would be great for local date nights. Just saying. It has possibilities but only if planned using lessons learned elsewhere, not necessarily in consideration of only the operator's short-term interests.

[tdawg]

That's Springfield, Mass not Boston, no?

[Hokiehaven]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

I'll throw my lot in with the NO side on the casino argument.

I mean yeah, they can be built well. But they won't. The whole point of a casino is to be insular and keep people inside. Hutchinson Island would be a better choice. Savannah legit lacks hotel rooms, and it would be another bonafide tourist attraction.

I actually think they should consider tearing down Lenox and building a massive new casino/hotel/mall development on the site, with numerous towers. Buckhead already lacks a good street presence and this will be an improvement over baseline. It will draw tourism and entertainment up into that part of the city. But I know that's a radical proposition.

That is an idea I could get on-board with, Lenox Mall needs to be replaced and slapping a casino in it's place and replacing the mall with a new mall as part of the casino would make a ton of sense. Plus the entertainment and food options would be huge particularly over what's at the mall area right now.

It's also right on the MARTA line, and all the high end shopping is there.

I agree many would think it's radical, but it makes a lot of sense.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

O4W - StudioPlex Alley
19 town homes and 30K sqft of retail.[/IMG]

Buckhead - Modera

Modera Buckhead has always looked incredible and I am incredibly supportive of the Studioplex development. Looks like absolutely amazing infill for the area.

[atlwarrior]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Saw a billboard for No2 Opus Place along the connector. Hopefully they have an aggressive sales strategy.

Hopefully all the free advertising about Atlanta from the Falcons have brought in new buyers. It literally been 3 weeks of great free advertising about the city from Football.

[One ATLien]

Wow, Modera Buckhead retail renderings look nice, better then what I would have imagined

[Libertarian]

If the Gulch and adjacent lots are built out, there should be provision for a "Highline" pedway to connect the stadium side of Alabama Street with the continuation of Alabama across the Gulch. Just my opinion.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Just so we are all on the same page

The pic below is the most likely area a casino would go if it is in Downtown. Does any seriously believe there is any other appropriate use for this site other than a casino? Considering it is surrounded by government buildings without street level retail, Philips Arena, Falcons Stadium and a 3 Million sqft. convention center. This area is not "neighborhood friendly" ALREADY and never will be.

And you wonder why Atlanta's downtown got destroyed and lost most of it's residents? It is this sort of attitude. Downtown has all these acres of empty surface parking lots because it has been a dumping ground for mega projects no one wants to live around. You don't improve that situation by adding another mega project that ignores the street life.

I don't have a problem with gambling, but I have a problem with downtown being a dumping ground for bad mega projects. The main things that needs to go on that site is a street grid and a mix of uses including residential and commercial that all address the street. But if a casino want to be a part of that, great. If not, send it to Cobb. There are a hundred better uses besides a casino that could go there, including some that are already in negotiations.

[thepope117]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Exhibit A - "Insular" MGM Casino Development Boston

Folks this extreme "neighborhood UNfriendliness" at it's pinnacle. Don't let the large open landscaped sidewalks, street retail, impeccably disguised parking decks fool you. This is a dark chasm of HELL - FIRE - SIN...Scary shit.

Project Statistics:
MGM Springfield, an $800 million investment, is designed to ignite an urban revival. MGM and its professional partners worked painstakingly to put together a design that celebrates the history of Springfield while moving the Gateway City into a new era of commerce and economic opportunity.

Plans also envision a high-energy dining, retail and entertainment district with an eight-screen cinema, bowling alley and an outdoor stage. This will be developed by Davenport Properties of Boston, MA, in partnership with MGM on land now occupied by the tornado-ravaged South End Community Center and Howard Street School.

MGM Springfield will bring 3,000 permanent jobs and 2,000 construction jobs to Downtown Springfield. MGM has established a hiring goal of 35 percent of the workforce from the City of Springfield and 90 percent from a combination of Springfield and the region. Additionally, MGM Springfield has entered into surrounding community agreements with neighboring communities providing for tens of millions of dollars.





• Video Link

If they were proposing this id be happy but they are using the one in dc as a model for Atlanta and that is your standard fortress development.

[sbrptree]

Originally Posted by tdawg

That's Springfield, Mass not Boston, no?

Correct. I have family there and know the area well. It's economically depressed compared to Boston. Comparable to putting a casino in Macon. Casinos typically draw those with lower income and levels of education. This is 100% opposite of what is happening in Midtown with the attraction of high-tech high paying jobs.

Personally - would rather see better trade schools and manufacturing for those without college degrees....my two cents.

[Urbannizer]

Hanover Midtown

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Urbannizer

Hanover Midtown

Pretty sure that will be finished before Hanover West Peachtree--I don't think I've ever seen a project progress as slowly as that one.

[ATLontheRISE]

Originally Posted by sbrptree

Correct. I have family there and know the area well. It's economically depressed compared to Boston. Comparable to putting a casino in Macon. Casinos typically draw those with lower income and levels of education. This is 100% opposite of what is happening in Midtown with the attraction of high-tech high paying jobs.

Personally - would rather see better trade schools and manufacturing for those without college degrees....my two cents.

Wasting your energy. The casinos are coming. And it's coming to an area that's full of asphalt. With 0% interest from investors or developers to develop into some urban area. Say what you want, 3000 jobs is a good thing. Not everyone can make 70/hr. And if this area was so desirable , why hasn't it ever been develope? Never ever.

If we are talking about "rather see going there "... I think all of us would rather see a community of dense housing. But in reality, nobody has ever wanted to develop it into that. So, we wait another 10,20,30 years for this to "organically" happen? It's pie-in-the-sky thinking. And I'm glad the state is moving ahead with it. Every city and situation is different. We are better served fighting for side walk access and making sure it's not isolated. And that the design is amazing and respects the amazing park across the street.

Downtown has grown so much. But we are still a few pieces away. Casinos is just a piece. If you don't want to gamble, don't go. Most of you talked about how cheesy the sky wheel is. But you go down there, and its date night for a lot of people. It's fun time. It's a chance to get granny out the house for a day date. Its a good addition to an area that needed something. Complain away... with your charts and grafts about stats.... it's useless. The casinos are coming. Period. 2 billion dollars worth.

[cabasse]

we get to join the ranks of downtowns like detroit, shreveport, las vegas and 'fabulous' reno. fantastic! if this turns out to be anything but another fortress bunker i'll eat my shirt.

[RudyJK]

Originally Posted by cabasse

we get to join the ranks of downtowns like detroit, shreveport, las vegas and 'fabulous' reno. fantastic! if this turns out to be anything but another fortress bunker i'll eat my shirt.

Yay - lucky us! And this tacky fortress bunker will contribute to the continued poverty of the citizens of Atlanta. No thanks.

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/06/21/gaming-the-poor/?_r=0

And I guarantee it will look more like this: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Detroi...4e35b9c4d2!8m2!3d42.331427!4d-83.0457538

[scania]

Originally Posted by cabasse

we get to join the ranks of downtowns like detroit, shreveport, las vegas and 'fabulous' reno. fantastic! if this turns out to be anything but another fortress bunker i'll eat my shirt.

I've been to all those places and it's Fabulous Las Vegas. Lol...but seriously, give Atlanta much more credit. Atlanta is not any of those places and will have a totally different vibe and character than the places you mentioned. With that being said, Vegas has one of the biggest tourism in the world and the money that's made there from the casinos, retail, restaurants, etc. rival with NYC. I wouldn't even compare Las Vegas to a Shreveport. Casinos would bring more people not just to downtown, but Midtown to Buckhead as well. More pedestrian activity, and spending more money. All I'm saying is that everything that can bring in more people and revenue to the city would be awesome.
Also, this thing that these are not good jobs...why? A card dealer versus a bus boy or a waitress at some these restaurants that we feel are great to have. The card dealer makes more money overall in general.

Side note, as I type this I'm flying back to LA, and Downtown to Buckhead looked great. Also, the new Sun Trust Park was lit up with signs showing off the different colors across the park and it honestly looked great.

[cabasse]

i'd rather see nothing over what i strongly consider to be bad development.

[pica]

Vegas is Vegas for a reason. There's a reason why people like to visit that city, but not live there. Nobody wants their own city to be Vegas, and there's no point in trying because it turns out this country only really needs one of them. Look at Atlantic City; not exactly proving that there's a robust market for casino tourism outside of Nevada. With more states legalizing some form of gambling, you're seeing decent-looking projects pop up all over the place, because they're suckering cities into giving them tax breaks and free infrastructure to plop down a new bunker in their town. What are these places going to look like in a decade? I'd go all in on a bet that they're going to be looking like Atlantic City by then. Because MGM will have moved on to convincing Alabama or Tennessee or wherever to let them build a casino there.

I've said it on every forum that's discussed this topic: show me someone who wants the casino built in their own neighborhood. Show me a group of those people and I'll become convinced that it's a good idea. But so far it seems like every single person who wants casinos in Georgia, wants them in someone else's backyard.

I grew up an hour from Biloxi. I saw how casinos changed south Mississippi. For a time, it seemed extremely glamorous. But if you bother to venture beyond the resorts, you see the effects it had on the local population and the rest of the city, and it is ugly.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by scania

I've been to all those places and it's Fabulous Las Vegas. Lol...but seriously, give Atlanta much more credit. Atlanta is not any of those places and will have a totally different vibe and character than the places you mentioned. With that being said, Vegas has one of the biggest tourism in the world and the money that's made there from the casinos, retail, restaurants, etc. rival with NYC. I wouldn't even compare Las Vegas to a Shreveport. Casinos would bring more people not just to downtown, but Midtown to Buckhead as well. More pedestrian activity, and spending more money. All I'm saying is that everything that can bring in more people and revenue to the city would be awesome.
Also, this thing that these are not good jobs...why? A card dealer versus a bus boy or a waitress at some these restaurants that we feel are great to have. The card dealer makes more money overall in general.

Side note, as I type this I'm flying back to LA, and Downtown to Buckhead looked great. Also, the new Sun Trust Park was lit up with signs showing off the different colors across the park and it honestly looked great.

Why would a casino in Downtown bring people to Midtown and Buckhead? Most people would drive their cars to the casino parking garage, gamble away their life savings, then drive back in their cars happy or depressed to their home back in the suburbs with little to no interaction with the downtown core.

People here are really overestimating the impact of a casino. Unless it literally looks like the Springfield, MA casino and let's be honest, they're basically building an entirely new neighborhood around the casino itself, then it's going to be awful and a fortress where people spend all their time in and don't spend their money anywhere else.

[pica]

Also, that rendering of a "good casino" just looked like Atlantic Station to me. And there's no way MGM's downtown casino would have that much retail, given how much is being planned for Underground.