Shift: London's Rapid Transit Initiative

[ssiguy]

If LRT is off the rail then what about Richmond & Oxford? That was going to be tunneled due to the congestion there backed up by the rail line crossing Richmond. Is there going to be a bus tunnel? If not then this major headache for the LTC and to maintain the word "rapid" in rapid transit will be hard to maintain.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by kaiserLDN

This part of the LFP article bugs me.... “Electromagnetic issues” from the rail lines,affecting science and engineering research on campus, are just one example of why Western is resistant, White said

If we were spending all this money on LRT I'm sure these issues would have been taken care of. We just needed a mayor that wasn't distracted by personal problems and one that would have brought everyone together to fix westerns issues.

Affecting science and engineering seriously? Tell that to the countless cities in Europe...I would love to see some hard facts to back up that statement.

[HillStreetBlues]

McMaster- actually The Canadian Centre for Electron Microscopy (CCEM) at Mac- said that Light Rail Transit (LRT) in Hamilton would create an Electro Magnetic Field (EMF) that would interfere with their microscopes, in particular their Scanning Electron Microscopes (SEMs).

CCEM, at least to hear them tell it, have extremely sensitive microscopes, some of which are unique in Canada. It was not the department of engineering saying that there would be "issues"- they cited specific sensitivities of specific equipment.

The City of Hamilton actually commissioned a report (it's available online, and I know for a fact that UWO has internet access) investigating the EMF impact of LRT on CCEM's SEMs. The report offered details and estimated costs of mitigation strategies. The impact, even on very sensitive equipment, can be counter-acted, and is not a reason in and of itself to opt against LRT as a technology.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

McMaster- actually The Canadian Centre for Electron Microscopy (CCEM) at Mac- said that Light Rail Transit (LRT) in Hamilton would create an Electro Magnetic Field (EMF) that would interfere with their microscopes, in particular their Scanning Electron Microscopes (SEMs).

CCEM, at least to hear them tell it, have extremely sensitive microscopes, some of which are unique in Canada. It was not the department of engineering saying that there would be "issues"- they cited specific sensitivities of specific equipment.

The City of Hamilton actually commissioned a report (it's available online, and I know for a fact that UWO has internet access) investigating the EMF impact of LRT on CCEM's SEMs. The report offered details and estimated costs of mitigation strategies. The impact, even on very sensitive equipment, can be counter-acted, and is not a reason in and of itself to opt against LRT as a technology.

Not to mention all the streetcars that go by the University of Toronto, at least along College Street and Spadina Avenue...though I'm not sure if there's any EMF-sensitive departments close to either street...

[kaiserLDN]

A study for sewer realignment for the Richmond St. tunnel.

http://www.london.ca/residents/Environme...realignment-NoC_public_2017-01-03_v1.pdf

[Dupcheck]

I have talked to some of the Western Engineering students on why do they oppose the LRT? Their response was very silly: "We do not want to be under a long construction or muddy conditions during our years of study, because LRT infrastructure would be more involved and longer to develop."

I am ashamed to hear these selfish comments that are such short term thinking!

The City should decide for themselves and not consider these silly excuses from Western or their self centered students that just care only of their time there.

This is about the whole community and long term thinking! It is also about the future students that would enjoy this for 100 years to come. It is about the new potential/vision/message that LRT would bring to our city.

[jammer139]

It is truly a shame that we have such a culture of selfishness that fuels the NIMBYS of this world. It's not just the young or the old it seems to be across all generations.

[Dupcheck]

Latest update:

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/01/12/rapid-transit-rejig-in-offing-for-londons-core

[HillStreetBlues]

King Street is the better choice if the lanes can't be accommodated on Dundas without losing street trees and whatnot. Good stuff is happening on Dundas that shouldn't be disrupted, and King Street will serve it just as well. And, with the transit lanes on King instead, maybe Dundas can be pedestrianized through that stretch one day...

Expect some resistance to losing that many eastbound car lanes.

When LRT was being considered, I thought running it in opposing directions on King and Queens might be a good idea. That's Ion's configuration in downtown Kitchener. There are downsides, but advantages to I think, not least that they could be converted to two-way traffic in the process.

[Dither City]

I always thought $500 million was low estimate considering city of London's talking about 10 years to build complete BRT system. You can also bet it will be done as cheaply as possible it will also be bare bones transit system.


http://www.lfpress.com/2017/01/20/londons-budget-for-rapid-transit-increases-by-10

[HillStreetBlues]

That article is the first I've heard about London buying electric buses- does anyone know enough about pricing to guess which manufacturer they might be looking at? New Flyer has electric buses now, so I assume those would be it. I don't know who else is running those yet.

It would be great to see the LTC running electric buses. Very forward-thinking for this region. That would really be something.

[jaradthescot]

I sent an article (http://www.businessinsider.com/proterra-unveils-electric-bus-with-350-mile-range-2016-9) about Proterra buses to Phil Squire (who's on the LTC board) a while back. Can't find exact purchase figures, but this article (http://ecomento.com/2015/08/03/business-case-proterra-electric-bus/) from 2015 says they cost approximately $1,000,000.00 to operate for 10-12 years.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by Dither City

I always thought $500 million was low estimate considering city of London's talking about 10 years to build complete BRT system. You can also bet it will be done as cheaply as possible it will also be bare bones transit system.


http://www.lfpress.com/2017/01/20/londons-budget-for-rapid-transit-increases-by-10

And you've just raised an issue that reminds me of why I initially thought that $800 million was a low-ball estimate for a combined BRT/LRT system.

This could be the real reason why the city ditched the LRT portion of the project. They may well have done some further investigation and discovered there was no way they were going to be able to build a LRT line at least 10km long AND buy rolling stock for just $300 million.

OC Transpo's new Confederation Line LRT runs over a distance of 12.5km, at the total cost for the project is $5.1 billion, including rolling stock.

[jaradthescot]

300 million more than what BRT would cost, not 300 million total. But the rest of your point is valid.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by Stevo26

This could be the real reason why the city ditched the LRT portion of the project. They may well have done some further investigation and discovered there was no way they were going to be able to build a LRT line at least 10km long AND buy rolling stock for just $300 million.

Plausible, but then why not be transparent with everyone regarding the real reasons? I just do not think that was the case, either option was going to see cost increases it is the nature of the beast.

I also heard something on the radio this morning that Western has a new set of criteria that must be met if the city wants it to run through campus, not sure if that is the information we already have or is new. Our councilors per usual will bend, rather than making realistic concessions or giving Western an option to not be part of the process.

[GreatTallNorth2]

This is what my response would be to Western - screw you. You don't get to dictate to the entire city of London what our transportation is. We can either expropriate the land we need and build or we can put a station outside of campus.

[kaiserLDN]

list of 15 conditions Western wants.

http://www.am980.ca/2017/01/26/132226/

[kaiserLDN]

Originally Posted by kaiserLDN

list of 15 conditions Western wants.

http://www.am980.ca/2017/01/26/132226/

Notice #14

[haljackey]

Booooo

[MrSlippery519]

The city should simply reply "NO please try again"

While most of these conditions are completely reasonable there are a few that are insane.

#4 for example "The City must fully support the University’s medium-to-long-range plan to eliminate vehicular traffic (except for emergency/service vehicles and accessibility requirements) in the core campus" -
Umm what? Wouldn't supporting LRT help eliminate traffic? While a train is still a vehicle yes, it is a much more controlled scenario with little to no room for error, is more efficient, more comfortable for riders, etc.

and #14 of course BRT will not be convertible at any point in the future to light rail. - I am honestly not even sure how the city could agree to these two points.