Shift: London's Rapid Transit Initiative

[jammer139]

The widening of 69 and 11 coming south from Sudbury and North Bay and north from Barrie was infrastructure investment started by Mike Harris's conservative governments. Good thing too given the number of head on crashes that claimed so many lives over the decades on those two highways. Thankfully most of the work has been continued to open up the north by providing a much safer 4 lane freeway to the north.

Originally Posted by jaradthescot

Just to be clear, I wasn't knocking the cons as much as I was knocking all Canadian/Ontario parties. I didn't see the cons doing much to support infrastructure in their time in office up to '03 (except selling away the 407). I don't see much from the liberals until the past couple years (which is very overdue, and hardly a priority since they've been in power for over a decade). Wasn't trying to make this political regarding one party vs the other, just pointing out that all our parties across the spectrum have been failing Canadians when it comes to infrastructure investment.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by jammer139

Don't be silly! The city purchasing and procurement folks would have too many issues with using Open Source or Creative Commons software or materials. It would threaten their jobs and the proprietary providers of training and commercial software.

Can't have that.

Well, what can I add, or say, other than 'spot on'?

I work for the federal government and we have similar problems. In my daily work I have to work with mainframe software that is literally almost as old as I am and has been patched over and upgraded a bit in the succeeding decades since its introduction.

The latest patch-over, in an attempt to sort of modernize the system, is a MS Access database and forms UI that scrapes data up from the mainframe and loads it into the MS Access database.

The data scrapes drive me nuts because it takes 12 - 15 seconds for the scrape to be completed anytime I do something on a file. Do at least 10 actions on a file, and that's at least 120 seconds wasted. Do 10 or 20 files a day, and that's 20 - 40 minutes of time and productivity wasted.

I'll be retired before they ever even consider building a modern system that is actually easy to use and lets employees actually get work done without having to tear their hair out every time the system crashes, demands that you again re-enter your password or chokes on the software equivalent of a hairball. And I plan to retire in about six years from now. And if that isn't enough, our IT people will only allow us to ask for just one small system improvement a year!!

But I've long since learned that this kind of deliberate inefficiency keeps empires and fiefdoms afloat. Even though there's no need for it.

It seems to me governments really hate creativity or, to use a very hackneyed expression, out-of-the-box thinking that moves things forward. It's like they're afraid they will be publicly pilloried for well-intentioned experiments that don't work out. But failure is part of life, and governments, like people, aren't perfect.

[ssiguy]

While I agree that all parties in both Ottawa and Queen's Park have been negligent in the infrastructure profile, I think it's fair to say that things haven't looked better for Canadian infrastructure re-investment in over half a century.

Wynne, if for nothing else, will be remembered as the Premier who placed infrastructure renewal and expansion at the top of her agenda. Trudeau will be the same for Ottawa. Due to Trudeau, it won't matter who gets in next time in Queen's Park, infrastructure {especially transit/green projects} spending will continue to soar. This is because the feds are not only spending big time but also because they have moved their share of infrastructure spending from 33% of cost to 50%. That makes a BIG difference at both the provincial and municipal level.

All of a sudden the mayors and MPPs get to spend the same amount of money and yet get twice the infrastructure jobs, twice the ribbon cutting ceremonies, twice the pet projects, and twice the vote buying..............a politician's wet dream.

[kaiserLDN]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

While I agree that all parties in both Ottawa and Queen's Park have been negligent in the infrastructure profile, I think it's fair to say that things haven't looked better for Canadian infrastructure re-investment in over half a century.

Wynne, if for nothing else, will be remembered as the Premier who placed infrastructure renewal and expansion at the top of her agenda. Trudeau will be the same for Ottawa. Due to Trudeau, it won't matter who gets in next time in Queen's Park, infrastructure {especially transit/green projects} spending will continue to soar. This is because the feds are not only spending big time but also because they have moved their share of infrastructure spending from 33% of cost to 50%. That makes a BIG difference at both the provincial and municipal level.

All of a sudden the mayors and MPPs get to spend the same amount of money and yet get twice the infrastructure jobs, twice the ribbon cutting ceremonies, twice the pet projects, and twice the vote buying..............a politician's wet dream.

sorry.... what major infrastructure has wynn and the liberals done to be at the top of her agenda? I haven't seen to much action and saw they canceled GTA west highway. So I was curious. Thanks

[jaradthescot]

Hamilton LRT, Mississauga-Brampton LRT, 407 extension off the top of my head. Would really have been nice to be able to include "London LRT" in that list. Sigh.

[kaiserLDN]

I feel we need more for the amount of people that keeps coming to Ontario. Regardless of the political party anyone likes though they will have to keep building lots more infrastructure!...Regarding London's BRT. I did see in the LFP that they were putting some money for a construction nerve center for the BRT project.. #progress lol

[ssiguy]

There have been huge investments in Ontario..........twinning of Northern highways, Windsor 401 extension, Kitchener ION, 401 widening in Miss/Mil/Kitch, Miss Transitway, Brampton ZUM, York Region BRT, Toronto...... Spadina ext, Eglinton Crosstown, UPX, and huge expansion, grade separation, track twinning and new stations on GO........and Ottawa's Confederation Line.

This doesn't include the forthcoming Hamilton LRT, Miss/Brampton LRT, Durham BRT, Ottawa Confederation western extension, GO RER and electrification and total grade separation, the Scar/Danforth subway extension, Finch LRT, DRL subway line, Niagara and Newcastle GO , London/Toronto HSR, Peterborough GO rail, and even, if London can get it's shit together, SHIFT.

None of this even includes the standard expansions of universities, colleges, hospital etc.

Ontario has more transportation projects underconstruction and planned than at anytime in it's history. I don't think you appreciate how good you have got it when it comes to infrastructure expansion especially when the vast majority of it being paid for completely by senior levels of government. Most places on the planet would give their left nut to be in that position.

[Rosso Corsa]

Maybe we can draw some parallels from this

Winnipeg started their own rapid transit initiative a while back, and recently faced the same LRT versus BRT debate as London

They ended up choosing BRT for the entire system due to the fact that LRT could not be justified with the existing population and density levels. From what I understand, Winnipeg is a drivers city. Their downtown is not very popular and the city is sprawled out. Population: 663K.

Sound familiar?

Interesting piece is that phase 2 of their project is being constructed with the option to convert to LRT at a later date, requiring minimal capital investment. We should also note that this project is a public-private partnership, so the mechanics are slightly different than what is at play in Ontario.

I for one am a huge proponent of LRT for London, especially considering the KW LRT line next door. However, I think we should all take a page from Winnipeg's book to see why BRT may make more sense in London at this point in time. It's not what I or most of you want to hear, but, as with Winnipeg, I'm sure (I hope) City Council is designing this system with the intent to convert the downtown portion to LRT at a later date.

Interesting freeps article I found on the comparison

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/02/26/lrt-not-best-system-for-university-or-city

Thoughts?

[ssiguy]

Although I don't necessarily disagree with Winnipeg's decision to BRT as they have built a very good and fast system. Winnipeg, contrary to what you say, has a very busy and prosperous downtown and would have been a real solid case for LRT but BRT was the ONLY way they would get any funding from the province or even the City for that matter.

Winnipeg is the only Western city to have a solid manufacturing base ad the biggest one is New Flyer Industries. A huge transit bus manufacturer that as of 2012 held a stellar 32% of the US market and almost 50% of the Canadian one.

New Flyer not only has a major plant in Winnipeg but it is also headquartered {and founded} in Winnipeg. Manitoba and Winnipeg wanted to keep those jobs and the head office and hence they got the contract. LRT didn't have a chance. It also allowed New Flyer to demonstrate the cost effectiveness and efficiency of true BRT over LRT which, if emulated across NA, would be very beneficial to Winnipeg.

[Dupcheck]

Results not words. People do not care what party, we care about results. Show us results!!!!!!! Where is this at? When will we see shovels in the ground?

[jaradthescot]

They planned for 2018, so probably... 2025?

[haljackey]

First bus only lane - left turn from Sarnia WB to Wonderland NB
http://www.london.ca/residents/Roads-Tra...ement/Pages/Dedicated-Transit-Lanes.aspx

If anything a good pilot project for Shift

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by haljackey

First bus only lane - left turn from Sarnia WB to Wonderland NB
http://www.london.ca/residents/Roads-Tra...ement/Pages/Dedicated-Transit-Lanes.aspx

If anything a good pilot project for Shift

I notice that the "transit signal" doesn't have the white vertical bar light at the top. I don't know if this is required by the HTA but the transit signals in Toronto all have those and I've seen one of these in Kingston.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by haljackey

First bus only lane - left turn from Sarnia WB to Wonderland NB
http://www.london.ca/residents/Roads-Tra...ement/Pages/Dedicated-Transit-Lanes.aspx

If anything a good pilot project for Shift

Wow! I am impressed. Honestly, this is a pretty important step for a city of London's size in these parts. Hamilton recently fought a bitter battle over a measly 1500-meter bus lane in the densest transit corridor in the city, and gave it up after a pilot period. Here's hoping it's well-received, and priority signals and lanes are implemented at other spots in London.

[MrSlippery519]

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/01/04/western-university-maps-rapid-transit-future-rules-out-rail

Really Western?? If I were the mayor I would honestly tell Western to go F themselves and that zero rapid transit will be going through the campus. Since they are so concerned with pedestrians??? They would rather have loud, pollution causing buses running through the campus, versus a specific rail line that everyone knows about, is quiet and would add a great deal to the pedestrians and everyone on the campus.

[kaiserLDN]

I don't see how they wouldn't want light rail. So many benefits for the school.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by kaiserLDN

I don't see how they wouldn't want light rail. So many benefits for the school.

I know right? It seems off to me they would not be pushing to have light rail ONLY on campus not the other way around.

[Dupcheck]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/01/04/western-university-maps-rapid-transit-future-rules-out-rail

Really Western?? If I were the mayor I would honestly tell Western to go F themselves and that zero rapid transit will be going through the campus. Since they are so concerned with pedestrians??? They would rather have loud, pollution causing buses running through the campus, versus a specific rail line that everyone knows about, is quiet and would add a great deal to the pedestrians and everyone on the campus.

I couldn't agree more. Here is a link to a recent article what pollution can do to you: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/dementia-traffic-1.3921614

[kaiserLDN]

This part of the LFP article bugs me.... “Electromagnetic issues” from the rail lines,affecting science and engineering research on campus, are just one example of why Western is resistant, White said

If we were spending all this money on LRT I'm sure these issues would have been taken care of. We just needed a mayor that wasn't distracted by personal problems and one that would have brought everyone together to fix westerns issues.

[jammer139]

Detracts from the country club atmosphere that Western wants to maintain. Guess they would be ok if it was a subway like what York U. is getting under their campus.