New Central Library | Construction

[poppa777]

Mean while back at the Library ������

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Imaging ordering an LRT can that when it arrives in Calgary from Germany doesn't fit on the width of our track!

There's a bit of a difference. Track width is standardized worldwide (except for a few countries like Russia that use different gauge) - mistakes are far more likely with items that have custom measurements.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Imaging ordering an LRT can that when it arrives in Calgary from Germany doesn't fit on the width of our track!

Considering Siemens Canada builds them in California, I would imagine it would go something like this....

'Where'd this German train come from?'

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

There's a bit of a difference. Track width is standardized worldwide (except for a few countries like Russia that use different gauge) - mistakes are far more likely with items that have custom measurements.

like a bridge LOL!

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Suburgatory

Solid finishing wood isn't cheap.
http://www.amwoodinc.com/pricelistlandv.aspx

That is not what the construction folks pay.

[Suburgatory]

Originally Posted by suburbia

That is not what the construction folks pay.

And? Heard of wholesale and retail pricing? Trade pricing is usually in the range of 10-30% less, and up to 40% in some rare cases. Sure, there's potential for large volume pricing as well.

If you don't want to pay what a contractor is going to charge for materials, just set up your construction company, get yourself a truck and trade accounts at the dozens of places required to get all you need for the job. Then see what you get charged for hourly labour from skilled and in demand trades who can only earn on labour.

Yes, you'll get cases where full or partial discounts are passed along to the client. That's how the construction industry and many other material+labour industries work. You know when you get your car serviced, they don't actually pay that amount for those litres of oil?

Trade pricing is also about trades keeping loyalty commitments to their suppliers.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Suburgatory

If you don't want to pay what a contractor is going to charge for materials, just set up your construction company, get yourself a truck and trade accounts at the dozens of places required to get all you need for the job. Then see what you get charged for hourly labour from skilled and in demand trades who can only earn on labour.

I think there needs to be more transparency in construction. The reality is, the labour charged and the project management overhead is already quite substantial. The fact there are kickbacks across the board make it worse. That's why often construction outfits do not get you the best product. They will go to a place that charges more for inferior product, as long as the kickback is bigger. That's why the industry is so big in Montreal.

[Suburgatory]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I think there needs to be more transparency in construction. The reality is, the labour charged and the project management overhead is already quite substantial. The fact there are kickbacks across the board make it worse. That's why often construction outfits do not get you the best product. They will go to a place that charges more for inferior product, as long as the kickback is bigger. That's why the industry is so big in Montreal.

You really show when you're out of your element. Trade pricing is not a construction mafia "kickback".

[Deepstar]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I think there needs to be more transparency in construction. The reality is, the labour charged and the project management overhead is already quite substantial. The fact there are kickbacks across the board make it worse. That's why often construction outfits do not get you the best product. They will go to a place that charges more for inferior product, as long as the kickback is bigger. That's why the industry is so big in Montreal.

There needs to be transparency in banking where fat cats make millions upon millions.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I think there needs to be more transparency in construction. The reality is, the labour charged and the project management overhead is already quite substantial. The fact there are kickbacks across the board make it worse. That's why often construction outfits do not get you the best product. They will go to a place that charges more for inferior product, as long as the kickback is bigger. That's why the industry is so big in Montreal.

Oh you are so out of the loop on what you speak of, it's not even worth debating the topic with you. Really, it would be nice of you to back your claims up with your own personal experiences on this topic but you either won't or can't. Oh well.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Deepstar

There needs to be transparency in banking where fat cats make millions upon millions.

I think the banking industry is a good parallel to construction. In banking, advisors need to be transpearant about kickbacks / fees relating to investment products they recommend. Construction is quite far behind - where the outfits do not tell clients that they receive kickbacks from suppliers, that they guide to certain suppliers in return for larger kickbacks from other suppliers, etc.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by speedog

Oh you are so out of the loop on what you speak of, it's not even worth debating the topic with you. Really, it would be nice of you to back your claims up with your own personal experiences on this topic but you either won't or can't. Oh well.

Absolutely. Here is a great example of how the construction industry works:
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mr-sidewalk-alleged-mafia-middleman-speaks-at-quebec-inquiry-1.1160241

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Suburgatory

You really show when you're out of your element. Trade pricing is not a construction mafia "kickback".

Same essence with different terminology.

Customer talks to renovation outfit for doing a basement. High quality basement quoted at $50,000, broken out as follows:

- $25,000 suppliers
- $15,000 labour
- $10,000 (20%) management fee / claimed profit

The supplies are $25,000, but 30% goes back to the outfit, a total of an extra $7,500. The labour quoted at $15,000 based on outsourcing, but the outfit hires direct at half the rate, so another extra $7,500 back to the outfit. So not $10,000 profit, but $25,000 profit - a fully 100% on top of actual costs. But here is the additional backstory. The supplies, had for $17,500 (charged $25,000) could have been had for $15,000, but because the alternate supplier only kicked back 20%, which would only be $3,000 in the pocket of the construction mafia, the outfit will never go there, and you will never be told.

Back to the library please.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Absolutely. Here is a great example of how the construction industry works:
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mr-sidewalk-alleged-mafia-middleman-speaks-at-quebec-inquiry-1.1160241

So you now believe because something happens in Quebec, that the construction industry as a whole across Canada is just as corrupt? Wow.

[Suburgatory]

Originally Posted by speedog

So you now believe because something happens in Quebec, that the construction industry as a whole across Canada is just as corrupt? Wow.

It's amazing. I think I have to put to rest suburbiapage.com.

[Rollerstud98]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Same essence with different terminology.

Customer talks to renovation outfit for doing a basement. High quality basement quoted at $50,000, broken out as follows:

- $25,000 suppliers
- $15,000 labour
- $10,000 (20%) management fee / claimed profit

The supplies are $25,000, but 30% goes back to the outfit, a total of an extra $7,500. The labour quoted at $15,000 based on outsourcing, but the outfit hires direct at half the rate, so another extra $7,500 back to the outfit. So not $10,000 profit, but $25,000 profit - a fully 100% on top of actual costs. But here is the additional backstory. The supplies, had for $17,500 (charged $25,000) could have been had for $15,000, but because the alternate supplier only kicked back 20%, which would only be $3,000 in the pocket of the construction mafia, the outfit will never go there, and you will never be told.

Back to the library please.

So you're calling contractor pricing a kickback? Contractors get better pricing and then are able to charge retail pricing to a customer in order to make money while doing business. Otherwise, why be in business?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Rollerstud98

So you're calling contractor pricing a kickback? Contractors get better pricing and then are able to charge retail pricing to a customer in order to make money while doing business. Otherwise, why be in business?

In essence it is the same thing. I've had people bidding for projects come to me and explain their "profit" leaving out all the of the kickbacks. Indeed it is a kickback as was explained by another forum member who correctly highlighted that part of it was to ensure loyalty. Buy my inflated price material and I'll give you a bigger cut, and together we will screw the customer.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Not a surprise. Calgary's construction industry is inept and can't measure / calculate. Challenges with The Bow's plates, building a bridge that was the wrong size over Shagganappi, and now this.

You're an idiot.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

You're an idiot.

That was uncalled for.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by suburbia

In essence it is the same thing. I've had people bidding for projects come to me and explain their "profit" leaving out all the of the kickbacks. Indeed it is a kickback as was explained by another forum member who correctly highlighted that part of it was to ensure loyalty. Buy my inflated price material and I'll give you a bigger cut, and together we will screw the customer.

That's not my experience. When I tendered a project, I would contact several contractors for each sub-trade, have a brief conversation about their capacity (i.e. could they meet our schedule?), if our product fit within their wheelhouse, some other admin stuff (safety, insurance, etc) and then would send them a tender package with drawings, specifications, preliminary schedule etc. Then everyone was told to give their best price. Then we make a decision based on their price, capacity, quality of work (if we had worked with them before, or what their references said about them) and our budget. If a supplier or contractor wants to lower their price to get the volume of sales from the job, that's their prerogative. Not sure where the kickbacks come in.