Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by logan5

Broadway's screwed regardless of what construction method is used. The stations have to be majorly excavated at only 1 km intervals. Even if the cost was the same, the time savings would be worth it. 4 to 6 years? jesus christ that will be painful to watch.

Given all that, the sooner we get onto it, the better!

[GlassCity]

Openhouse dates and times and survey period revealed, along with a couple small renders:

http://files.constantcontact.com/0048c37b001/9d60ba18-881c-43d7-87ec-d80c8e98d3bc.pdf

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Openhouse dates and times and survey period revealed, along with a couple small renders:

http://files.constantcontact.com/0048c37b001/9d60ba18-881c-43d7-87ec-d80c8e98d3bc.pdf

Thanks for the info - I will definitely be letting them know how I feel about their decision to go with LRT versus SkyTrain!

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Orcair

Thanks for the info - I will definitely be letting them know how I feel about their decision to go with LRT versus SkyTrain!

Good to hear, but please do it in a civil and constructive manner. The rapid transit connection to Langley must be an extension of the Expo Line. A pointless change in technology (and therefore transfer) makes no sense at all regarding that project.

As for the desired L-line completely within Surrey itself, I have no real issues with their LRT desire besides the cost (and the fact that a rapid bus would provide the same service at a much lower price).

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Good to hear, but please do it in a civil and constructive manner. The rapid transit connection to Langley must be an extension of the Expo Line. A pointless change in technology (and therefore transfer) makes no sense at all regarding that project.

As for the desired L-line completely within Surrey itself, I have no real issues with their LRT desire besides the cost (and the fact that a rapid bus would provide the same service at a much lower price).

I agree completely on both (& promise to be civil about it)! I would much rather have BRT & Skytrain (which the alternatives rated highly, except on initial cost), versus this LRT debacle.

[CurtisVerbatim]

"Get involved in the LRT Vision for Surrey and provide your input on how Light Rail Transit
will help transform Surrey into connected, complete and livable communities."

It won't. They even made "Light Rail Transit" bold to shove it further down our throats.
Phase 2 better be Skytrain.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Good to hear, but please do it in a civil and constructive manner. The rapid transit connection to Langley must be an extension of the Expo Line. A pointless change in technology (and therefore transfer) makes no sense at all regarding that project.

As for the desired L-line completely within Surrey itself, I have no real issues with their LRT desire besides the cost (and the fact that a rapid bus would provide the same service at a much lower price).

Yeah, I care less about the L-Line since it's not a key regional connection, but the cost is a real issue for me. Why would we waste a huge amount of hard-to-come-by capital funds on something that doesn't provide any improvement of service than a bus? That money would be much more effectively spent on general bus service improvements, even if they were entirely realized within Surrey.

[Metro-One]

That is the sticking point, it will be such a waste of money. If Surrey wanted to fund and built the L line as LRT with their own money, then there would obviously be no problem (or at least cover the difference between rapid bus and LRT), but that is not how it is.

With that said it seems with how regional politics have been played out that Surrey getting their LRT is inevitable. Given this reality I urge everyone to realize that the L-Line is a lost battle, so it would be wise to put full efforts on ensuring that the far more important extension to Langley is built properly as a skytrain extension of the Expo Line.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

That is the sticking point, it will be such a waste of money. If Surrey wanted to fund and built the L line as LRT with their own money, then there would obviously be no problem (or at least cover the difference between rapid bus and LRT), but that is not how it is.

With that said it seems with how regional politics have been played out that Surrey getting their LRT is inevitable. Given this reality I urge everyone to realize that the L-Line is a lost battle, so it would be wise to put full efforts on ensuring that the far more important extension to Langley is built properly as a skytrain extension of the Expo Line.

Phase one in Surrey is the first joke and waste of money but running LRT down Fraser Hwy with cars and traffic lights at intersections? That's an even bigger joke. I wonder how the citizens in the valley will feel riding a slow LRT just to get off and re-board the skytrain at KG? Makes me wonder what the geniuses who thought all this up were smoking. Skytrain to Langley is the only option that makes sense.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Phase one in Surrey is the first joke and waste of money but running LRT down Fraser Hwy with cars and traffic lights at intersections? That's an even bigger joke. I wonder how the citizens in the valley will feel riding a slow LRT just to get off and re-board the skytrain at KG? Makes me wonder what the geniuses who thought all this up were smoking. Skytrain to Langley is the only option that makes sense.

I am relatively new to Vancouver and have visited Langley (for the first time) recently. In my capacity as a former transportation planner/professor I endorse the position of giving priority to extending Skytrain to Langley over the Surrey LRT project given potentially (negative) issues related to travel times/regional connectivity and traffic safety within the wider context of limted/scarce government funds.

[ilikeredheads]

I'm all for Surrey having its own glorified streetcar as long as they are responsible for all the building and operational costs. Then we can all just sit back, grab some popcorns, and enjoy the inevitable trainwreck.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Makes me wonder what the geniuses who thought all this up were smoking.

Well, you guys do have some good BC Bud. Might be that.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by Caliplanner1

I am relatively new to Vancouver and have visited Langley (for the first time) recently. In my capacity as a former transportation planner/professor I endorse the position of giving priority to extending Skytrain to Langley over the Surrey LRT project given potentially (negative) issues related to travel times/regional connectivity and traffic safety within the wider context of limted/scarce government funds.

Just look at all the accidents the Calgary C-Train has because it mixes with regular traffic. LRT might be good for some cities and regions but won't work here. Ultimately, the BC government won't help fund LRT down Fraser Hwy. They will step in just like they did with the Canada Line and dictate what technology will be used but that is decades away.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Openhouse dates and times and survey period revealed, along with a couple small renders:

http://files.constantcontact.com/0048c37b001/9d60ba18-881c-43d7-87ec-d80c8e98d3bc.pdf

Those small renders don't actually look too bad--if they really rework the whole stretch like those renders, it could end up looking like the tram service in Grenoble, France. The large grassy median given entirely to the tram is what makes it work there (along with a pedestrianized downtown environment where the tram runs)--they don't have too many vehicle conflicts or crashes that way, unlike most heritage streetcar systems. But Surrey would have to go all out with reallocating the space that way.

That said, I still think Skytrain would be better even for this corridor. For Fraser Highway it should be a given.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

Those small renders don't actually look too bad--if they really rework the whole stretch like those renders, it could end up looking like the tram service in Grenoble, France. The large grassy median given entirely to the tram is what makes it work there (along with a pedestrianized downtown environment where the tram runs)--they don't have too many vehicle conflicts or crashes that way, unlike most heritage streetcar systems. But Surrey would have to go all out with reallocating the space that way.

That said, I still think Skytrain would be better even for this corridor. For Fraser Highway it should be a given.

My issue with LRT has much less to do with integration into the urban landscape and much more regarding service per dollar spent. No matter how you dress light rail up, it will never do well in that regard, unless you just make it SkyTrain with catenary wires and a different name.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

My issue with LRT has much less to do with integration into the urban landscape and much more regarding service per dollar spent. No matter how you dress light rail up, it will never do well in that regard, unless you just make it SkyTrain with catenary wires and a different name.

The word you're looking for is "grade separation". You pay extra for it, but it provides faster and more frequent service and an infrastructure that will keep paying dividends far into the future.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The word you're looking for is "grade separation". You pay extra for it, but it provides faster and more frequent service and an infrastructure that will keep paying dividends far into the future.

I was making a specific point not to use that word to sound more petty

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Orcair

I agree completely on both (& promise to be civil about it)! I would much rather have BRT & Skytrain (which the alternatives rated highly, except on initial cost), versus this LRT debacle.

Good to hear If I wasn't on the other side of the Pacific I would be there too.

[TransitJack]

Where would the OMC/Maintenance Area be with a proposed 'L' line?

[Millennium2002]

So the LRT is official... for the portion between Newton and Guildford, at least. I know some of us here are still mad that they even chose LRT in the first place, but for now I'm frankly thankful that they decided to tackle this corridor first rather than the more controversial alignment between King George and Langley. Perhaps in due time we'll see how good or bad of a decision this ends up being...

Originally Posted by TransitJack

Where would the OMC/Maintenance Area be with a proposed 'L' line?

This might be a good question to ask during the consultation. As it is, the route alignment has many pieces of under-utilized land which could be assembled and used as an OMC... We'll know better closer to construction most likely.