YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[nname]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

China Airlines has already made the Taipei trip already.

That flight, in particular, is the presidential charter with very limited amount of passengers, operated tailwind direction only (return was via Central/South America then LAX).

A 777-300ER will not make the flight under normal operating condition.

[trofirhen]

From what I understand here, YVR - MIA is a coveted and remunerative potential route that keeps getting blocked or stalled for on reason or other.

OK, but what about YVR - Atlanta? For VYR pax, it's the ovious connecting point to the US southeast, but in paricular the large Florida market; Miami, FLL, Orlando, Tampa...
not to mention all the Carib destinaions out of ATL, like Nassau, Barbados, Aruba, and so on. ATL isn't the busiest airport in the world for nothing, and everyone know that.
I cannot understand why YVR gets token service from DL, which doesn't go guns for it.
Air Canada wants people to go through YYZ, which is a 'long way around' but why not a US airline? But is this not a potentially major route, with all kinds of connection potential?
As a contrasting example; YVR has several flights a day to ORD, but yet has two nonstop per day to MPS. Not knocking MPS, but if we have that, why isn't ATL getting more attention?
Can someone explain this to me, please? It almost seems irrational. Is it that important for Air Canada that YVR pax go through YYZ, or would this route pay for itself? Anyone?

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

Valid points, I dont disagree with your statements however its being considered. China Airlines has already made the Taipei trip already. and the infrastructure is already in place. and i never said 16.5 hours to HK, i said Asia (taipei)

MIA-TPE direct would be more tenuous than you would think as it will not get any significant transfer traffic from the PRC. cross-strait traffic is heavily regulated - the PRC currently puts significant limits on fifth freedom flights by taiwanese carriers because... china.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

From what I understand here, YVR - MIA is a coveted and remunerative potential route that keeps getting blocked or stalled for on reason or other.

OK, but what about YVR - Atlanta? For VYR pax, it's the ovious connecting point to the US southeast, but in paricular the large Florida market; Miami, FLL, Orlando, Tampa...
not to mention all the Carib destinaions out of ATL, like Nassau, Barbados, Aruba, and so on. ATL isn't the busiest airport in the world for nothing, and everyone know that.
I cannot understand why YVR gets token service from DL, which doesn't go guns for it.
Air Canada wants people to go through YYZ, which is a 'long way around' but why not a US airline? But is this not a potentially major route, with all kinds of connection potential?
As a contrasting example; YVR has several flights a day to ORD, but yet has two nonstop per day to MPS. Not knocking MPS, but if we have that, why isn't ATL getting more attention?
Can someone explain this to me, please? It almost seems irrational. Is it that important for Air Canada that YVR pax go through YYZ, or would this route pay for itself? Anyone?

A couple of reasons I can think of.
1/ the majority of YVR's international traffic is Asia or Europe bound, or US West / East Coast. Connecting via ATL is a pretty significant backtrack esp going east, much more than YYZ.
2/ ATL may be the world's busiest airport, but that's driven largely by DL. ORD is a hub for both UA and AA
3/ If you look at traffic patterns for transfer traffic, ATL is mainly a transfer hub for USA north-south traffic. ORD is more a hub for east-west traffic (see here: http://www.anna.aero/2016/05/25/transfer-traffic-at-top-four-us-airports-analysed/). I don't think the north-south traffic is there for YVR

Atlanta aside, I could see a YVR-MIA tag working for CX. The cargo opportunity is what would make this route work (in the same way that cargo is a big driver for the YVR-JFK tag).

[moosejaw]

Agreed ^^^^^^
DL pretty much owns the ATL terminals just like AA has a major presence at DFW and the North Terminal at MIA.

I think if there was a justification for YVR to ATL then it would be Delta operating it. And even at one flight a day, I think it would be expensive for any other carrier other than Delta to operate such a flight. At the other terminals (I even think its just one terminal outside the international terminal) the airlines use, its a dogfight for a berth.

An Atlanta connection would be ideal but i think tough to justify. Delta already uses Seattle as an Asian connection.

[Gordon]

Woould West Jet consider YVR ATL?

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Woould West Jet consider YVR ATL?

i would think but Westjet would have to pay a premium to land a spot there. The only room there would be at Concourse D if it were transborder flights which is already crowded. They could fly into Concourse F which is Air Canada but they share that with other intl airlines.

Westjet does not serve ATL at all which leads me to believe that its foray into the SE is leisure based. All other destinations in the SE if Westjet wer to fly into I would assume are business based.

Atlanta is a great city and i enjoy it more than Miami as it has more culture, museums, heritage, inepensive, but that traffic....forget it.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

................
Atlanta is a great city and i enjoy it more than Miami as it has more culture, museums, heritage, inepensive, but that traffic....forget it.

Off topic, but I thought Atlanta had an extensive subway system, MARTA or something? Is it not effective in reducing traffic, or maybe Atlanta just has too much low-density sprawl.

[deasine]

CX MIA-HKG-MIA has been on the radar for a while. But keep in mind the focus of CX is not necessarily YVR-MIA but rather HKG-MIA, as does the HKG-YVR-JFK route, the focus is JFK and not necessarily YVR (in fact often over 75% of the capacity from JFK is destined for HKG). If this route is successful, this may also be a good way to further increase CX frequency past the 3 weekly addition.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Off topic, but I thought Atlanta had an extensive subway system, MARTA or something? Is it not effective in reducing traffic, or maybe Atlanta just has too much low-density sprawl.

Its nothing like vancouver and its ridership levels are no where as near it either.
Its unfortunate as it serves the airport, downtown, and buckhead.
A significant part of Atlantas downtown commuting is located in NW where there is no rapid transit. As other cities in the southeast, most commute by car.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

Its nothing like vancouver and its ridership levels are no where as near it either.
Its unfortunate as it serves the airport, downtown, and buckhead.
A significant part of Atlantas downtown commuting is located in NW where there is no rapid transit. As other cities in the southeast, most commute by car.

MARTA serves Midtown, too, which is booming. My colleagues in ATL work and live there and are car-free much of the time. Uber is their friend.

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by YVR Bruce

I believe some credit goes to the fed gov. Across the CDN political spectrum. They kept out those who would leach-down the market (1st SQ was told no to more than 3(?) x week, then the ME3) and instead allowed useful participants. Including CX to JFK etc, but also AC to TPE etc.

Re the growth in MEX traffic, hopefully someone with knowledge of available tools can explore whether there is a shift in MEX-origin traffic from the US toward Canada - even at the fringes. With all the recent Mexico bashing I would not be surprised if some discretionary traffic moves to YVR/YYC/YYZ/YUL. This as a separate effect from the new Visa exemption, but compounding it.

Agreed. The government didn't get bullied around and stood their ground when they saw that it wasn't a sounds business decision. There is a fine balance between protectionism and making sound decisions and IMO they did a pretty good balance.

[Klazu]

Atlanta has both an extensive freeway network and a nice heavy rail subway through its town centres.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Atlanta has both an extensive freeway network and a nice heavy rail subway through its town centres.

The line actually run mostly at-grade or elevated. It's a nice and fully grade-separated system, but the service is horrible though... I remember I walked into a station just outside of downtown just after PM peak, and the screen shows the next train will come in 28 minutes...

Oh, and it got the same fare gate and smart card system as here, more than 10 years ahead of us.

[POCO]

I just saw on airliners.net that Air India announced flights to YVR on twitter.

Edit heres a link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/817245985445289984

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by POCO

I just saw on airliners.net that Air India announced flights to YVR on twitter.

Edit heres a link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/817245985445289984

Image is vague. Also the text at the bottom "EX HKG/LHR/PVG". Does it make sense to anyone?

[Speedbird1]

Originally Posted by POCO

I just saw on airliners.net that Air India announced flights to YVR on twitter.

Edit heres a link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/817245985445289984

Can't tell if that's just an advertisement for YVR as a codeshare destination or not.. it says ex. HKG/LHR/PVG. Nothing about new nonstops or service or whatnot.

OP of the anet post has just deleted his post as well.

[POCO]

Those are all origin cities for air india code shares on air canada, but so is Tokyo...

Possibly just advertising that you can fly to yvr on "AI" aka an AC codeshare.

[mezzanine]

Ben schlappig has a post on the possible HKG-YVR-MIA flight on his blog. He circle-mapped it and YVR's geography seems favorable. We'll see if Cathay crunches the numbers and rolls the dice (and deals with the bilateral issues)

[zahav]

November stats posted. We already know YVR reached 22 million for the year, but good to still see the actuals for Noivember. Amazing growth again at 11% overall, and now 9.6% YTD. The big gainers were transborder (+10.6%), Asia Pacific (+20.9%), and Misc. (+33.7%!!!). Domestic rolling along well (+7.8%). Europe had a bit of a pause (+1.4% only). Significant again is that for every sector other than Europe, the November growth outpaced the YTD growth. Can't for December and see exactly how the year ended. Not only record setting traffic, but % growth as well!

http://www.yvr.ca/en/about-yvr/facts-and-stats