Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 419

Corndogger · #**8361** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 12:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

As I'm in Nova Scotia right now:

Halifax Mooseheads 6,352/11,093
Halifax Hurricanes 1,929/11,093

A bit surprised that hockey is drawing triple what basketball draws.

How many places in Canada even have basketball teams? 2K/game doesn't sound bad to me. Is that below normal for Halifax or is the hockey team just drawing exceptionally well?

GlassCity · #**8362** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 12:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

As I'm in Nova Scotia right now:

Halifax Mooseheads 6,352/11,093
Halifax Hurricanes 1,929/11,093

A bit surprised that hockey is drawing triple what basketball draws.

I know you've mentioned before that basketball plays a bigger role in the sports scene in Nova Scotia than one might think, but even with that, I'm not surprised to see a large, established league like the Q outperforming the still young NBLC.

Oilkountry · #**8363** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 1:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I know you've mentioned before that basketball plays a bigger role in the sports scene in Nova Scotia than one might think, but even with that, I'm not surprised to see a large, established league like the Q outperforming the still young NBLC.

Ditto. Not sure why anyone would be surprised that Canadas #1 sport is out drawing something hardly on the radar for most Canadians

Acajack · #**8364** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 1:52 AM**

Yeah, the CHL has produced Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid, Patrick Kane, Tyler Seguin, John Tavares, and a whole bunch of other players that are among the world's best.

Jaws · #**8365** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 1:54 AM**

Bell Centre looks like a morgue tonight. WTF Montreal?

Be a long time before you host another WJHJC. But it's not like you care, obviously.

GreatTallNorth2 · #**8366** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 4:15 AM**

London averaged over 5,600 a game for the London Lightning of the NBL last year. It's the highest attendance in the league and they play in Budweiser Gardens, a building that seems like a perfect fit for our city's Jr. A hockey team and the Lightning.

isaidso · #**8367** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 4:49 AM**

^^ They're doing very well in London. Orangeville is the NBL's weak link.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I know you've mentioned before that basketball plays a bigger role in the sports scene in Nova Scotia than one might think, but even with that, I'm not surprised to see a large, established league like the Q outperforming the still young NBLC.

True, the NBL is in its infancy and has to compete with university ball. I'm in NS now and AUS basketball has been the #1 sports story in the Chronicle Herald (Halifax paper) sports page every time I've picked it up. I don't think one can go anywhere else in Canada and see that type of coverage in the local press.

I do sense that hockey has gotten stronger here since I lived here though. Maybe a Sidney Crosby effect?

isaidso · #**8368** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 4:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Ditto. Not sure why anyone would be surprised that Canadas #1 sport is out drawing something hardly on the radar for most Canadians

Because I lived in NS for 20 years.

isaidso · #**8369** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 5:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger

How many places in Canada even have basketball teams? 2K/game doesn't sound bad to me. Is that below normal for Halifax or is the hockey team just drawing exceptionally well?

I think 2,000 for the Hurricanes has more to do with the status of the NBL than anything else. I did expect attendance to be higher though. Nova Scotia doesn't conform to Canadian sporting norms; people follow basketball in NS and have for decades. Halifax got a pro basketball team before Toronto did. Hockey is obviously very popular but it's always shared time equally with basketball and football. Even Cape Breton had a pro basketball team for a while. Now the Capers have the basketball market on Cape Breton to themselves.

I haven't lived in NS for almost 20 years. Although deeply ingrained in the culture, I sense that basketball and football aren't as big as they used to be but still closely followed. The AUS Championships (university basketball) usually outdraw the other 3 national conference championships combined when it comes to attendance. The 3 day tournament usually draws 20,000-30,000 fans. NS supports no fewer than 5 AUS squads yet has fewer people than Ottawa.

Acajack · #**8370** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 12:04 PM**

One of my parents was born and raised in Nova Scotia, though not in the Halifax area.

The recollection: in the 1950s, Nova Scotian boys definitely did play shinny on frozen ponds and such but the NHL as a game wasn't really significantly on peuple's radar. Sure, people had an idea there was pro hockey and names like Maurice Richard and Gordie Howe rang a bell, but visibility for the NHL paled in comparison to that of baseball and basketball that entered people's homes via the Boston stations that most everyone could receive over the air.

Today of course the NHL-CBC-Molson, etc. marketing machine has several decades and generations of cross-Canada domination under its belt, and so the NHL is IMO the most popular pro sports league in Nova Scotia by a longshot, just as it is basically everywhere in Canada.

MonctonRad · #**8371** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 1:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Even Cape Breton had a pro basketball team for a while. Now the Capers have the basketball market on Cape Breton to themselves.

FWIW, there is a new pro basketball team in Sydney, playing out of Centre 200. The Cape Breton Highlanders are an NBL expansion team, joining the Atlantic Division alongside Halifax, Moncton, Saint John & PEI.

q12 · #**8372** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 4:11 PM**

Hockey was born just outside Halifax in Windsor, Nova Scotia.

The Halifax Mooseheads just played the Cape Breton Screaming Eagles in front of about 9,000 for the inaugural Hurley Cup.

Quote:

"The Irish field game of Hurley was first taken to the ice by the boys of King’s College School in Windsor, Nova Scotia around 1800 and over a period of decades adapted into what became known as hockey. Windsor has since widely been adopted as the birthplace of hockey."

Halifax Mooseheads Attendance:

Source

2003 IIHF World Junior Championship in Halifax attendance:

Quote:

HALIFAX/SYDNEY SET WORLD JUNIOR ATTENDANCE RECORD : 242,173
| January 16, 2003 |
Halifax/Sydney, NS - 2003 - 242,173

GAME SPECTATORS VENUE
GER - FIN 9558 Metro Center Halifax
SWE - CAN 10594 Metro Center Halifax
CZE - GER 9577 Metro Center Halifax
CAN - CZE 10594 Metro Center Halifax
FIN - SWE 10104 Metro Center Halifax
GER - CAN 10594 Metro Center Halifax
SWE - GER 10427 Metro Center Halifax
FIN - CZE 10462 Metro Center Halifax
CZE - SWE 10416 Metro Center Halifax
CAN - FIN 10594 Metro Center Halifax
SUI - GER 10111 Metro Center Halifax
USA - CZE 10250 Metro Center Halifax
FIN - SVK 10162 Metro Center Halifax
SWE - BLR 10083 Metro Center Halifax
RUS - FIN 10527 Metro Center Halifax
CAN - USA 10594 Metro Center Halifax
CZE - SVK 10210 Metro Center Halifax
SWE - SUI 10210 Metro Center Halifax
GER - BLR 10208 Metro Center Halifax
USA - FIN 10310 Metro Center Halifax
CAN - RUS 10594 Metro Center Halifax
TOTAL 242,173 (with Sydney Centre 200)

Source

September 2016 Leafs and Senators Pre-season game:

Source: Scotiabank Centre Twitter

Source

Hockey and the Halifax Mooseheads are always the #1 sports story in the newspapers. I understand Basketball has done well in Halifax, but it cannot be compared to support for Hockey in Halifax.

JHikka · #**8373** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 7:42 PM**

Toronto finished the 2017 World U20 Juniors with an average attendance of 10,533 over 12 games (126,390 in total). In 2015 for the same tournament Toronto averaged 13,873 (249,722) which included the medal round.

Montreal managed only 10,215 for a Canada Quarterfinal game against the Czechs last night. That's the smallest crowd for any Canada WJC game in Canada in the 21st century AFAIK. All Canada games in Buffalo were 17K+. All Canada games in Ottawa were 19K+. All Canada games in Saskatoon were 13K+.

So far, Toronto and Montreal have mustered a combined 200,095 through 25K. That's an average of 8,004 in rinks that hold much more than double that. At this current rate the tournament will barely have a higher average than Regina & Saskatoon and the rink used in Regina holds only 6K.

2003 - Halifax & Quebec City - 241,504 - 7,790
2006 - Kelowna & Vancouver - 325,138 - 10,488
2009 - Ottawa & Ottawa - 453,282 - 14,622
2010 - Regina & Saskatoon - 301,944 - 9,740
2012 - Edmonton & Calgary - 455,342 - 14,688
2015 - Montreal & Toronto - 366,370 - 12,212
2017 - Toronto & Montreal - 200,095 - 8,004 (as of January 2nd)

Vancouver/Victoria shouldn't be too difficult a sell for 2019 but it really makes me wonder where Hockey Canada wants to go for 2021 given the abysmal attendances in Toronto & Montreal these past two events. It looks like the sweet spot average is between 10-14K. With that being said, Quebec City and Moncton are going to have two still-relatively-new arenas by 2021 and should be favourites for hosting I would imagine.

esquire · #**8374** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 7:43 PM**

^ I'm assuming that revenues and profits are probably well above average, though... why else would they host the tournament there other than to be able to charge extortionate prices for the Canada and medal games?

JHikka · #**8375** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 7:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I'm assuming that revenues and profits are probably well above average, though... why else would they host the tournament there other than to be able to charge extortionate prices for the Canada and medal games?

Because it's wildly convenient for executives/businessmen/TSN.

At the end of the day you're still hosting hockey games in rinks that are mostly empty. It's not a good look. It's what those Euros always get criticized for by Canadians whenever they host the tournament.

GreaterMontréal · #**8376** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 8:01 PM**

It's not a surprise that the Montréal Impact draws more people than a World junior hockey tournament.

MonctonRad · #**8377** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 8:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Vancouver/Victoria shouldn't be too difficult a sell for 2019 but it really makes me wonder where Hockey Canada wants to go for 2021 given the abysmal attendances in Toronto & Montreal these past two events. It looks like the sweet spot average is between 10-14K. With that being said, Quebec City and Moncton are going to have two still-relatively-new arenas by 2021 and should be favourites for hosting I would imagine.

Here's hoping for a Moncton/Halifax bid for 2021.

esquire · #**8378** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 8:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

At the end of the day you're still hosting hockey games in rinks that are mostly empty. It's not a good look. It's what those Euros always get criticized for by Canadians whenever they host the tournament.

Fans deserve credit for knowing a bad deal when they see one. Canada's games at the ACC cost $84-$229, no doubt plus the inevitable "fees"... this is dumb.

Based on the increasing number of big-name events that aren't selling out, I think we're starting to see the limits of what fans are willing to put up with.

JHikka · #**8379** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 8:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Fans deserve credit for knowing a bad deal when they see one. Canada's games at the ACC cost $84-$229, no doubt plus the inevitable "fees"... this is dumb.

Based on the increasing number of big-name events that aren't selling out, I think we're starting to see the limits of what fans are willing to put up with.

This is essentially the point that's surfaced in the past month in Toronto. With the number of events and games in Toronto in 2016 it only makes sense that there's financial and interest fatigue in the market. It doesn't really go very far in explaining Montreal's situations this WJC, but it explains Toronto's.

Hockey Canada will surely learn from this and move on. Their biggest mistake was likely hosting the tournament in the same two cities twice in three years. A rotational model seems wiser, IMO, where a region/province sees the event once every ten years or so. HC almost certainly saw the successes in the previous tournaments (Ottawa, Alberta, Saskatchewan) and thought they'd be guaranteed two easy successes in Toronto and Montreal.

I feel bad for the kids on the Canadian team. Growing up they would have watched U20 games in Ottawa and Edmonton and Calgary and would have seen those giant crowds and crazy atmospheres. Then, when they finally make the team, they end up playing in a half-empty Bell Centre. It must be disappointing to a certain degree thanks to how much TSN tries to hype up this event and hockey in Canada in general around this time of year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Here's hoping for a Moncton/Halifax bid for 2021.

Quebec City/Moncton seems more likely to me but I would be over the moon with an all-Maritime tournament.

WhipperSnapper · #**8380** Posted **Jan 3, 2017, 9:05 PM**

If 8000 in attendance still covers costs than half filled arenas isn't a huge issue. Better than a filled arena that is still barely breaking even. A half filled arena doesn't look good for marketing of future events though.