Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Complete nonsense. It's the teams playing and how often this "special event" has been done in the past that matter not the location.

This great article contrasts Michigan's historic college stadium with that of BMO field:

Originally Posted by NHLNumbers

1. Many Leafs fans went to the outdoor game in Ann Arbor on January 1st, 2014, and saw a storybook ending (well, if storybook endings involve the NHL-structured shootout) in a greatly historic college football stadium. Chances of that being replicated Sunday are slim. They just are.

It's a good article as the author does pretty well to elaborate on supply/demand of sporting events in Toronto and how this weekend's Centennial Classic likely won't be a sellout. Comparing that to the junior games in Toronto/Montreal this week and their so-so attendance figures. Worth a read IMO, aside from this general discussion.

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

The only problem with smaller places like Halifax & Monctown is that they don't have a proven ability to hold stadium events.. they don't have stadiums!
CFL I think tried to hold a few games in the past there, but they couldn't even sell out.

Moncton has a stadium and a recent history of hosting events. Halifax doesn't but has the potential without the stadium.

Bringing up CFL attendance is interesting as there's been a general downward trend the past decade or so for the whole league. Moncton not selling out its games adds to this narrative as well as the logistic issues they were planted with at the time.

[someone123]

I guess it is debatable what counts as recent or what is large enough but the CFL games in Moncton and Halifax were called Touchdown Atlantic and there were 4 of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchdown_Atlantic

The first one was held at Huskies Stadium in Halifax in 2005 (this stadium still exists but has very little permanent seating) and sold out with an attendance of 11,148. Moncton then hosted two sold-out games with over 20,000 and then a third of 15,123 that did not sell out.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

The first one was held at Huskies Stadium in Halifax in 2005 (this stadium still exists but has very little permanent seating) and sold out with an attendance of 11,148. Moncton then hosted two sold-out games with over 20,000 and then a third of 15,123 that did not sell out.

The third game had a listed capacity of 16,000 due to a change in the temporary seating made available to the stadium by the City of Moncton. I believe there was also an NHL game in Halifax that same day, if we're looking to make excuses for poor attendance.

It seemed obvious by the third game that it didn't really matter if the game was well-attended or not because Moncton wouldn't be getting a CFL franchise regardless. No owner = no franchise, on top of the money needed to make Moncton's stadium CFL-worthy. This article mused that fans in the Maritimes lost interest in watching imported teams from elsewhere in Canada.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

I guess it is debatable what counts as recent or what is large enough but the CFL games in Moncton and Halifax were called Touchdown Atlantic and there were 4 of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchdown_Atlantic

The first one was held at Huskies Stadium in Halifax in 2005 (this stadium still exists but has very little permanent seating) and sold out with an attendance of 11,148. Moncton then hosted two sold-out games with over 20,000 and then a third of 15,123 that did not sell out.

For the third game in Moncton, fewer temporary bleacher seats were installed, for a total capacity of slightly less than 16,000 (I believe). The game wasn't a sellout, but it was close (about 95% capacity or so).

The third game in Moncton had a completely different atmosphere than the first two. For the first two games, the opposing teams arrived early, interacted with the community, had scrimmages in neighbouring towns (including on PEI), there were street festivals and a high school football tournament with the football teams from all six city high schools competing. It was like a mini Grey Cup atmosphere. For the third game however, the CFL didn't put any effort in at all. The teams arrived the day before and left the day after. There were no ancillary events. You could tell that the CFL didn't plan on doing this experiment again.........

EDIT - I see that JHikka has provided a similar answer. Yes, the CFL had decided by the third time around that any Maritime team would be based in Halifax. As such, they had lost any appetite in promoting the game in Moncton.

[Coldrsx]

Ridiculous attendance numbers and a massive impact on our Downtown and city as a whole.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey...-figures-shift-oeg-expectations-globally

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Ridiculous attendance numbers and a massive impact on our Downtown and city as a whole.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey...-figures-shift-oeg-expectations-globally

That's all the more remarkable considering Edmonton has no NBA team.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by isaidso

That's all the more remarkable considering Edmonton has no NBA team.

They also don't have a NLL team.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Ridiculous attendance numbers and a massive impact on our Downtown and city as a whole.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey...-figures-shift-oeg-expectations-globally

Thanks for posting that article. I hope the naysayers in Calgary see it and realize that a well-designed, truly world-class facility can have huge positive economic impacts that far extend beyond just the local NHL team.

[isaidso]

Calgary will eventually get a modern hockey/basketball arena and a new/completely overhauled football stadium. It's better to hold out for something great than something quick. You'll have to live with whatever is built for 2-3 generations or more. On a side note, can Edmonton's new arena be properly configured for basketball? The one in Halifax does a horrendous job doubling as a basketball venue. The lower bowl doesn't meet the court and the seats behind the net are god awful. Hopefully that's not the case here.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Calgary will eventually get a modern hockey/basketball arena and a new/completely overhauled football stadium. It's better to hold out for something great than something quick. You'll have to live with whatever is built for 2-3 generations or more. On a side note, can Edmonton's new arena be properly configured for basketball? The one in Halifax does a horrendous job doubling as a basketball venue. The lower bowl doesn't meet the court and the seats behind the net are god awful. Hopefully that's not the case here.

I'm not suggesting Calgary settle for something quick at the expense of not getting quality facilities. But they've been talking about this stuff for a long time now.

I'd be shocked if Edmonton's new arena can't handle NBA games. The Saddledome can and has so I don't see why Rogers Place couldn't.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

I'm not suggesting Calgary settle for something quick at the expense of not getting quality facilities. But they've been talking about this stuff for a long time now.

I'd be shocked if Edmonton's new arena can't handle NBA games. The Saddledome can and has so I don't see why Rogers Place couldn't.

It wasn't really a comment directed at anyone. Is the Saddledome set up for basketball comparable to NBA arenas or what one sees in Halifax with a lower tier that doesn't meet the court?

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It wasn't really a comment directed at anyone. Is the Saddledome set up for basketball comparable to NBA arenas or what one sees in Halifax with a lower tier that doesn't meet the court?

I think they can do it but I know in the game this fall between the Raptors and Nuggets the seats did not meet the court at the ends. But they did setup bleachers. No idea why they didn't do it but my understanding is that it's possible unless at some point in the last few years they made changes that took that capability away.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Ridiculous attendance numbers and a massive impact on our Downtown and city as a whole.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey...-figures-shift-oeg-expectations-globally

This following line caught my eye: "The Oil Kings, who go into the New Year averaging 9,071 fans per game, are also in a good position to be playing in the post season in a year when that wasn’t expected."

9,071 would be the highest average attendance in Oil Kings history with their previous highest being 7,575. Most teams by New Years are behind their previous season's attendance as more higher-attendance games are found during playoff runs and ends of seasons so this average should increase as we move into the spring.

Although it's not quite a direct comparison the Quebec Remparts averaged 13,835 in the new Centre Videotron with no NHL team in their market last season. This season their average has dropped to 8,907 as of New Years. This will rise but as of now is below Edmonton's.

Since i'm on this subject, comparable numbers by New Years:
Team - Arena - 16-17 Avg. Att. / Arena Capacity
Edmonton Oil Kings - Rogers Place - 9,071 / 18,347
London Knights - Budweiser Gardens - 8,998 / 9,046
Quebec Remparts - Centre Videotron - 8,907 / 18,259
Calgary Hitmen - Calgary Saddledome - 7,848 / 19,289
Regina Pats - Brandt Centre - 5,017 / 6,136
Vancouver Giants - Langley Events Centre - 3,769 / 5,276
Saskatoon Blades - Sasktel Centre - 3,666 / 15,195
Hamilton Bulldogs - FirstOntario Centre - 3,643 / 17,383

The Ottawa 67's are seeing a bump in attendance this season as well now that they're settling back in to their arena in Ottawa as opposed to being stuck in Kanata.

Prince George are on pace for their best attendance season in thirteen years at the halfway point. They're currently averaging more than double (3,462) what they were in 13-14.

Regina's on pace for their best attendance season in a decade.

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Ridiculous attendance numbers and a massive impact on our Downtown and city as a whole.

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey...-figures-shift-oeg-expectations-globally

Every city/team have a surge in tickets/attendance with new arenas. Key will be to come back in 5 years or 10 and talk numbers.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TFC_GroundsDept/status/815734274888466432

That was a lot of sports... Nov 27th-Jan 1st. @torontofc @TorontoArgos @MapleLeafs @BMOField ... now to dial it in for March 31st.

[eemy]

Kitchener Rangers - The Aud - 6990 / 7131

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Every city/team have a surge in tickets/attendance with new arenas. Key will be to come back in 5 years or 10 and talk numbers.

any examples of this?

Garth brooks would have sold out rexall 9 times as well this has nothing to do with the new arena

Oilers Sold out rexall night in night out and are a winning team for the first time in over a decade. An 18,*** seat rexall would be sold out too so again this is regardless of rogers place

Oilkings are also a winner So that has a lot to do with the additional 1200 fans this season

Let's stop downplaying Edmonton as a sports and entertainment market

To expand on this I don't think Rogers place will have as big of an impact on Edmonton in terms of raw attendance as you think. Almost everything that happened in Edmonton was sold out to begin with Rexall was a very capable arena and a busy one at that. In 2014 it was 2nd busiest in Canada, 5th in North America and 24th in the world. The numbers your seeing today will be very similar to the numbers you see 5-10 years from now (exluding the seating capacity difference)

I agree with your statement to a degree.

Winnipeg arena to MTS centre would change the type of events that true north could host so they would see more events. But of True north were to build a new arena to replace MTS I don't think it would do much for them in terms of attendance nor events.

If you're replacing a capable arena with a capable arena I don't see why it would spike. Unless you're directly in Ottawas position

[Riise]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Thanks for posting that article. I hope the naysayers in Calgary see it and realize that a well-designed, truly world-class facility can have huge positive economic impacts that far extend beyond just the local NHL team.

Maybe they are just waiting until a well-designed, truly world-class facility is actually proposed...

[isaidso]

As I'm in Nova Scotia right now:

Halifax Mooseheads 6,352/11,093
Halifax Hurricanes 1,929/11,093

A bit surprised that hockey is drawing triple what basketball draws.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Riise

Maybe they are just waiting until a well-designed, truly world-class facility is actually proposed...

I take it you're not a fan of Calgary Next. I like the concept and the more detailed renderings we saw later in the year weren't that bad. Far from perfect but with some work they could come close. The City's Plan B proposal is a complete joke. If it's the only choice for now then I say we do nothing until we can do it right.