Why does everyone love Montreal?

[Acajack]

Saying that food needs salt to be tasty seems very old-fashioned. Like something people over 70 would say.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Yup. Plus I always say that someone who uses onions in a recipe doesn't know how to cook.

Erm...what? Half of the dishes I make start out with onions and garlic cooking in oil. Onions are like mother's milk. You can't cook without them.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Saying that food needs salt to be tasty seems very old-fashioned. Like something people over 70 would say.

That's actually a standard Chinese criticism of a dish. You'll often hear "it's not salty enough" to mean that something is bland and lacking flavour. Of course, in Chinese cooking the sodium onslaught is double-barrelled: both soy sauce and salt get added to everything. But you can always cut down on both, which is what I do.

These days I find Indian restaurants to be too salt-intensive, but I've been told by Indians that the home-cooking isn't like that. An Indian place (or buffet!) that doesn't add too much salt to the food is rare and highly to be prized.

I think only old-style diners have salt and pepper shakers on the table these days.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by rousseau

That's actually a standard Chinese criticism of a dish. You'll often hear "it's not salty enough" to mean that something is bland and lacking flavour. Of course, in Chinese cooking the sodium onslaught is double-barrelled: both soy sauce and salt get added to everything.

Let's also not forget "Chinese salt":

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I also dropped added sugar about a year ago (far easier than I thought it would be), along with sugary processed foods/drinks. In my case, that has contributed to an ongoing weight loss of about 2-3 pounds per month - nothing dramatic, but nice at the end of the year!

Losing 24 to 36 pounds per year is "nothing dramatic"?!? Seems to me you can't continue melting at that rate for too long... (unless your starting point was pretty scary, in which case, congratulations on doing the right thing for your health)

FWIW, I agree with most of you on salt/sugar; I actually don't have salt or sugar at my place, I never use those when cooking. I've cut drastically on them many many years ago.

[rousseau]

Ooops, gawd, how could I forget MSG? Not mentioning MSG when talking about Chinese food is like, I dunno, neglecting to include oxygen as a component of the earth's atmosphere.

I think salt, MSG and soy sauce are generally used individually in recipes, but it's not uncommon to add soy sauce or a salty chili sauce to something already seasoned with MSG. By the way, apparently MSG isn't as bad as they used to claim it was. Now they're saying that the hysterical opprobrium was based on hearsay and biased anecdotal evidence. Studies have shown no adverse effects from ingesting it.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Ooops, gawd, how could I forget MSG? Not mentioning MSG when talking about Chinese food is like, I dunno, neglecting to include oxygen as a component of the earth's atmosphere.

I think salt, MSG and soy sauce are generally used individually in recipes, but it's not uncommon to add soy sauce or a salty chili sauce to something already seasoned with MSG. By the way, apparently MSG isn't as bad as they used to claim it was. Now they're saying that the hysterical opprobrium was based on hearsay and biased anecdotal evidence. Studies have shown no adverse effects from ingesting it.

Compared to, say, chemistry or physics, nutrition is the science where theories have the shortest shelf life and the least credibility. I wouldn't be surprised if the consensus on MSG changes again.

Regardless of its health implications, I still think MSG sucks. It's a "cheating" ingredient that masks other flavours.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

And the shopping is vastly better than in Ottawa.

Not any more it isn't.

Re: Montreal. Visited a billion times and lived there for 3 years. Put me in the "meh" category.

One thing that Montreal excels at is branding and self-promotion. There's a pompousness that oozes out of that place that I've not experienced anywhere else in the world, in places where it would be infinitely more warranted.

It's a lot like pop music. The popularity of it is completely inconsistent with the (lack of) quality of the music and artistry.

[rousseau]

Back on topic, another reason why Montreal receives so much affection is that it's the only city in Canada with any real gravitas. Its lengthy history, the centuries-long inter-ethnic tensions, the 19th century architectural grandeur and the triplexes that go on for miles are weighty, and provide a launch pad for many of the things that make cities interesting and distinctive.

To get a bit city vs city (with only two urban "contenders" in this country, it's inevitable), Jesus of Montreal could only have been made in Montreal. Toronto's trademark is more quirky fluff like I've Heard the Mermaids Singing, Take This Waltz or The F Word along with some off-kilter dystopian stuff by David Cronenberg, but it has had so little of an inward focus that the exceptions to the rule are always startling (Thirty-Two Short Films About Glenn Gould, for example).

Though that's probably currently changing. And that's only film/TV. Literature is a whole other story if you're comparing the French and English traditions in Canada. Actually, that should be fodder for a graduate thesis somewhere: why is Toronto so wispy and paltry on the screen when on the page it is anything but?

Don't get me wrong. I like Toronto more than Montreal, I could list a dozen reasons why I think it's the better city, and overall it's more interesting due to a contagious sense of possibility arising from the fact that no one really knows exactly where this is all going or how it will end up when it's finally "done," but that's not exactly the sort of item you can list on a tourist brochure.

The charms of Montreal are immediate and easy to see. They're not elusive at all.

[softee]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Toronto's trademark is more quirky fluff like I've Heard the Mermaids Singing, Take This Waltz or The F Word along with some off-kilter dystopian stuff by David Cronenberg, but it has had so little of an inward focus that the exceptions to the rule are always startling (Thirty-Two Short Films About Glenn Gould, for example).

Have you ever seen Last Night?

[stm]

Originally Posted by Acajack

We barely use salt at all on our food in our household. Almost never in cooking and we certainly don't have it on the table as an odd-on to something that's already been prepared.

Not to be an ass but if you're not using some (not a lot) salt when cooking I can be certain your food isn't very tasty. You may have just gotten used to bland food. Go to any good restaurant anywhere in the world and I can assure you every single chef uses salt when required. Same applies to good home cooks. I do agree it shouldn't be needed at the table, but that's because food should properly seasoned before it arrives to the table.

[Martin Mtl]

To answer the question: no. Not everyone likes Montreal, far from it.

For a start, It seems that people from Ottawa generally dislike Montreal. At least on this forum.

And it's well known that Quebeckers outside Mtl have a very negative opinion of the city. Even those living in its suburbs.

Even hard core Montrealers have a love/hate relationship with the city.

[mistercorporate]

I cook or order a variety of different cuisines so salt is bound to be in the food. Salted or dried fish for example is a delicacy in many different countries and fricking delicious, it's almost always cured or seasoned with tons of salt.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by stm

Not to be an ass but if you're not using some (not a lot) salt when cooking I can be certain your food isn't very tasty. You may have just gotten used to bland food. Go to any good restaurant anywhere in the world and I can assure you every single chef uses salt when required. Same applies to good home cooks. I do agree it shouldn't be needed at the table, but that's because food should properly seasoned before it arrives to the table.

I am not the one who cooks. My wife does. And it is not at all bland. She never adds salt for salt itself. That is what I meant. That does not mean that certain sauces and seasonings might not have salt in them.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Not any more it isn't.

Re: Montreal. Visited a billion times and lived there for 3 years. Put me in the "meh" category.

One thing that Montreal excels at is branding and self-promotion. There's a pompousness that oozes out of that place that I've not experienced anywhere else in the world, in places where it would be infinitely more warranted.

It's a lot like pop music. The popularity of it is completely inconsistent with the (lack of) quality of the music and artistry.

It would be surprising that a city with three to four times the population of another would not have better shopping. Barring the total economic collapse of the former.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

To answer the question: no. Not everyone likes Montreal, far from it.

For a start, It seems that people from Ottawa generally dislike Montreal. At least on this forum.

And it's well known that Quebeckers outside Mtl have a very negative opinion of the city. Even those living in its suburbs.

Even hard core Montrealers have a love/hate relationship with the city.

Montreal is actuallly quite popular among Ottawans, even if they are increasingly drawn to Toronto.

Agree for the rest.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by softee

Have you ever seen Last Night?

No, but if you recommend it I'll check it out.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

To answer the question: no. Not everyone likes Montreal, far from it.

For a start, It seems that people from Ottawa generally dislike Montreal. At least on this forum.

And it's well known that Quebeckers outside Mtl have a very negative opinion of the city. Even those living in its suburbs.

Even hard core Montrealers have a love/hate relationship with the city.

If everyone was looking for the same thing we'd all live in one city, pop. 7.5 billion.

I have an ex who moved to DFW and she loves it, a friend who has been pining for Dhaka and another who set up shop in Aukland - never to return. Ditto a buddy who visited Bogata in 2005 never to be seen again. He now owns his own backpackers there. Other friends swear by Kuala Lampur, Bruges, Hong Kong, Barcelona, Hamburg, Mykonos..

There are even Berlin haters (I find this almost inconceivable!) NYC haters, London dislikers, Paris detesters..

Whatever floats your boat, just don't wave fucking rankings in my face and insist that your city is the best because it's not!

[softee]

Originally Posted by rousseau

No, but if you recommend it I'll check it out.

I definitely recommend it.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by rousseau

No, but if you recommend it I'll check it out.

Also, if you're checking out old "Toronto" films, I'd recommend Outrageous! from back in the '70s. Nothing says Toronto (as I see it) like a film about the friendship between a crappy hairdresser/fabulous drag queen who moves to NYC to pursue success and a schizophrenic who gives birth to a stillborn child.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Not any more it isn't.

While Ottawa's shopping certainly isn't bad, you can't argue that a city 3 times it's population wouldn't have better shopping if that's your thing.
Having said that, I get it if you meant that Ottawa pretty much has all the bases covered now

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

To answer the question: no. Not everyone likes Montreal, far from it.
For a start, It seems that people from Ottawa generally dislike Montreal. At least on this forum.

I don't know about that.. I don't see it..Even away from this forum

Montreal is that bigger interesting city that's conveniently just over a buck and a half drive away.
I forgot who stated it.I would have to scroll up, but I have to agree that Montreal has the pedigree to sit amongst North America's best offerings.
It's nice being situated close to that vs the generic ones you find throughout North America.

re: The whole salt thing..Yes, we made it a conscious effort ourselves a long time ago to not use salt when we cook.
Heck, it's hard to avoid as it is with all the processing..You can't even make a simple grilled cheese sandwich without taking in salt via the cheese slice.
Other people's home made soup just seems to taste too salty nowadays doesn't it? Eggs with plain ole black pepper and no salt works just fine.