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  #5941  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2016, 11:27 PM
hoboman27 hoboman27 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tobuz View Post
Here's my attempt at a balanced summary of the positives and negatives...
Great summary, you seem to know a lot about the airport even though you've only traveled twice out of it (new terminal). Do you work at the location? How's B and C these days, heard businesses in there are taking a hit.
     
     
  #5942  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2016, 12:00 AM
Tobuz Tobuz is offline
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Originally Posted by hoboman27 View Post
Great summary, you seem to know a lot about the airport even though you've only traveled twice out of it (new terminal). Do you work at the location? How's B and C these days, heard businesses in there are taking a hit.
Nope, just a frequent cross-border business traveller ... and an aviation junkie and close follower of what's going on at YYC.

Actually 4 US flights so far, but only 2 where I've checked a bag. 2x WS, 1x DL, 1x AC. Trips on UA, AS and AC on deck in the next few weeks. NEXUS member (frustrated at the new terminal, both departing and arriving) and a Plat Amex holder (giving me access to the Aspire Lounge).

Last edited by Tobuz; Dec 30, 2016 at 2:03 AM.
     
     
  #5943  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2016, 7:40 AM
Cage Cage is offline
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Originally Posted by msmariner View Post
I can't believe the negativity on this site. We have a brand new terminal that is having some minor growing pains. People make it out like it's the worse airport in the world.
........
Enjoy the extra room
Tobuz has given his response on the positives and negatives of the new terminal. Rather than reiterate the response I will say that his post fairly accurately reflects my thoughts as well.

Regarding the reasons for the negativity, all I can offer is the following:
- Perhaps our collective expectations were perhaps a bit too high, but also we were given a dream like expectations by CAA and others,
- There was no detailed specs or progress reports provided as to what was going to be contained inside the new terminal. The most we got was a indication that call to gate would be activated for the new terminal. At the time based on the collective experience from elsewhere, this did not appear to be a major issue.
- The first phase of the expansion went above everyone's expectations. The new runway kicked off a major realignment of the Alberta airspace. Followed closely by nearly eliminating most ground holds and circling required at peak times when the YYC airspace was overcapacity.
- The biggest reason is that since 3rd week of November I have heard from most major airlines at the new terminal and nobody is impressed with the building. About one month ago I posted about hearing from one airline HQ that the new terminal was considered a brand damaging experience. After reading news articles from Greg Saretsky and Robert Palmer, you would expect that I was talking about WestJet. However more shocking was that it was team red, Air Canada, that I was talking about. To have extremely negative conversations coming from both major airline users is quite frankly unprecedented.

Back in early September i posted about how the WS YEG-LGW flights were in jeopardy and that YWG-LGW flights were a total loss for returning next year. Additionally, I posted that WS was poised to make YYC their super hub and push YEG through YYC to connect to USA and sun destinations.

Today given the issues WS is having with regard to domestic to international/transborder connections and new terminal operations, I believe that YEG is about to be given a reprieve. YEG-LGW and the transborder operations will remain as is for the 2017 summer season. Further, an additional YVR-LGW flight (replacement for YWG-LGW) will make YVR the second Canadian city to have daily WS flights to LGW. This means that YYC WS pax on Saturdays will have their choice of YVR or YEG to connect.

For YYC to be a great airport, we have to focus on the negative aspects so they can be fixed or mitigated as much as possible.

One thing I learned early as a child in the 80s and 90s is best served by a quote from Robert Crandall, former CEO of American Airlines;
"The airline business is the closest thing there is to legalized warfare".
Airlines have the capability to adjust assets and people around the world with frightening speed. What industries can redistribute $250 million dollar plant with personnel on less than one weeks notice? The answer is military and airline. If we don't act fast, the window of opportunity to be a great hub airport will close.

From pulling up to the terminal entrance, checkin, preboard screening, customs, retail, gate to arrival CBSA, Connections, and bag pick up; here is what can be done to mitigate the negatives.

The front door;
- Door 15 should be the exclusive use of AC, DL and BA. It is debatable whether DL and KLM should trade spots, but for now lets assume airlines maintain their respective checkin locations.
- Door 16 should be the exclusive use of WS pax. However, door 16 is is in the wrong spot. It should be dead center of the checkin hall, but for aesthetic reasons was moved slightly to the east. This reduces the usefulness for WS pax. Additionally, it also makes it a logical entrance for all other airlines and reduces the effectiveness of door 17. However as putting in a new entrance is not practical, The overhead signs should be adjusted so that the center locations display WS exclusively.
- Door 17 should be the used for UA, AS, HU, TS and other charter airlines. But as stated above the closeness to door 16 makes it easy for pax to go through the wrong doors. The major pax familiarization issue is that some pax self checkin, print bag tag, but are unable to find their checkin counters for AS, UA, etc. They instead go to the empty counters at AA and get frustrated at being unable to deliver checked bags to their airline.

Preboard Screening:
- Pax were told by the airport to expect a streamlined and faster screening system. Instead for 1/3 of pax with Nexus cards they got a more lenthy process and most pax have longer lines as CATSA has reduced the number of open lanes too much.
- Single line operations at non peak times frustrates priority screening status holders and Nexus card holders. Solution, Airport authority takes over screening line maintenance and boarding pass scanning from CATSA and assigns those duties to airport ambassadors. Solution to Nexus lane issues is to create a common Nexus and Crew lane for checkpoints D and E. Airport to staff the Nexus preboard screening entrance with a Commissionaire to ensure that no one goes around transborder connections centre preboard screening process. For the record, crew and Nexus card holders do not have to go through enhanced american screening proceedures.
- Insufficient open lanes for both D and E. Solution Airport publicly calls out CATSA for insufficient number of open lanes

Customs:
- The introduction of technology has confused pax and USCBP officers a like. Similar situation occured at YYZ T1, takes about 6 months to get the confusion sorted out.

Retail and airside:
- Airport should work with duty free operator to allow for an unobstructed walkway through the store. Minimum aisle widths to be maintained at all times.
- Consider bringing a few of those YYC Link carts to get pax to the far end of E concourse. Build two stations but let carts and walkers freely roam the corridor.

Return to Calgary, Canada.
- Again a few YYC Link carts with defined stops would help with the long walks.
- Adjust signs so that pax at the end of the interstitial corridor are split between Calgary arriving and Nexus/Connections pax.
- Airport needs to lean on CBSA management to get officers adjusted to new realities. The computer system selects pax for additional screening rather than solely based on officer assessment. This should reduce lines forming after the pax use the automated passport control machines.
- Airport should employ customer care ambassadors to remind pax to have their declaration slips out and ready for hand over to CBSA officers at the exit to the bag hall. The exit line forms because some pax have put away their declaration forms. The customer care ambassador process is used at YYZ T1.

Connections:
- To help WS out with their swing gate issue. The airline should employ a bus operation. The airport would need to construct a bus bay near CBSA primary inspection line. The airline would have aircraft gate at the domestic side of the operation with pax disembarking through stairs to waiting buses. The buses would then transport pax in bond to the CBSA primary inspection hall. On the reverse, WS buses would transport domestic pax directly from A to D/E link station for a quick escalator/elevator ride up to international D concourse.
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  #5944  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2017, 4:29 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Impaired Sunwing pilot was 3 times over legal driving limit, two hours after the arrest. Of course, there is a zero tolerance in the cockpit.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/impaired-pilot-sunwings-airlines-arrest-1.3917757

interesting side-notes: First, it was a Slovakian pilot, raising the concern of foreign pilots being hired by Sunwing (mind you, Canadian pilots have been caught impaired as well in the last year on other Canadian carriers), and second, only 99 passengers on board the flight to CUN (during peak winter season), when Sunwing's max seating config is 189. Don't think there are any weight restrictions from YYC to CUN on a B738. Only a 4089 km sector, south eastbound, meaning a tailwind enroute.

Maybe he saw the long walk to the plane, and the Call to Gate system, and decided to drink his sorrows away....

Last edited by thenoflyzone; Jan 1, 2017 at 4:43 PM.
     
     
  #5945  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2017, 5:11 PM
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jmt18325 jmt18325 is offline
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The plane had two more stops in YQR and YWG to fill up.

Last edited by jmt18325; Jan 4, 2017 at 2:32 AM.
     
     
  #5946  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2017, 9:40 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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OK i see now. That makes sense.

YYC-YQR-CUN. No YWG.

https://www.flightradar24.com/flight/wg595
     
     
  #5947  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2017, 12:09 AM
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jmt18325 jmt18325 is offline
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Yeah, I heard too different stories. One talked about stops in only YQR, and one had YWG as well. Now I know which was wrong lol.
     
     
  #5948  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2017, 1:56 AM
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cyeg66 cyeg66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acey View Post
No tailwind, it's pretty much a crosswind the whole way down right now. For what it's worth, I've seen a WS 738 take a weight hit on YYC-CUN before. That was before the new runway, in the summer, and before bag fees. Sunwing carries 21 more pax than WS now, though WS would have been in the 174 seat config then.
They can have a pretty stiff headwind coming back sometimes, like last week for instance, there was a 140kt southbound jet stream over the midwest US. Northbound jets were crawling along at 300-350 kts g/s. Adds quite a bit of time.
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  #5949  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2017, 2:00 AM
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cyeg66 cyeg66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
Impaired Sunwing pilot was 3 times over legal driving limit, two hours after the arrest. Of course, there is a zero tolerance in the cockpit.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/impaired-pilot-sunwings-airlines-arrest-1.3917757

interesting side-notes: First, it was a Slovakian pilot, raising the concern of foreign pilots being hired by Sunwing (mind you, Canadian pilots have been caught impaired as well in the last year on other Canadian carriers), and second, only 99 passengers on board the flight to CUN (during peak winter season), when Sunwing's max seating config is 189. Don't think there are any weight restrictions from YYC to CUN on a B738. Only a 4089 km sector, south eastbound, meaning a tailwind enroute.

Maybe he saw the long walk to the plane, and the Call to Gate system, and decided to drink his sorrows away....
of course you'd jump to the conclusion that ex-YYC planes are flying empty. At least you're consistent.
Bon jour de l'an, AK. Es-tu qualifié à YUL?
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  #5950  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2017, 2:22 AM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is offline
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Happy new year bud !

This week or next. Going back to work tomorrow. Checkride....
     
     
  #5951  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2017, 5:35 AM
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A photo posted online tonight from another happy customer of the new terminal...

This is the experience at gate 72 on Sunday night. These folks are waiting in in our new terminal for WestJet 133, YYC to Comox. (Unfortunately for them, their wait was even longer due to a 20 minute departure delay.)

The swing gate experience is proving to be exceptionally bad.

     
     
  #5952  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2017, 5:48 AM
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Happy new year bud !

This week or next. Going back to work tomorrow. Checkride....
Nice.
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  #5953  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2017, 2:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobuz View Post
A photo posted online tonight from another happy customer of the new terminal...

This is the experience at gate 72 on Sunday night. These folks are waiting in in our new terminal for WestJet 133, YYC to Comox. (Unfortunately for them, their wait was even longer due to a 20 minute departure delay.)

The swing gate experience is proving to be exceptionally bad.

They could hand out floor pillows to sit on. Japanese style seating Longer term it will get worse, as smaller aircraft are generally being replaced with larger aircraft at both WestJet and Air Canada
     
     
  #5954  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2017, 6:39 AM
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that grey floor area is the main walkway to get to the D gates - as you can see you have to play frogger to get there - I noticed that a few weeks ago when I was walking around that area, hurried passengers are stressed enough, crowdedness only adds to the stress for many
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  #5955  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2017, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SpongeG View Post
that grey floor area is the main walkway to get to the D gates - as you can see you have to play frogger to get there - I noticed that a few weeks ago when I was walking around that area, hurried passengers are stressed enough, crowdedness only adds to the stress for many
I thought there were architectural firms that specialised in airport design. Did the airport authority not use one of these?

This is not even a case of miss judging consumer reaction to Call to Gate. This is the area is simply undersized for typical narrow body aircraft.
     
     
  #5956  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2017, 9:21 PM
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2016 year in review from local spotter Alex Peterson:

Video Link
     
     
  #5957  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2017, 11:03 PM
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Newleaf cancels flights to the US, blames WestJet (although not by name): https://www.facebook.com/newleaftravel/posts/1072308936211391
     
     
  #5958  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2017, 11:32 PM
Tobuz Tobuz is offline
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The complaints, photos, and snarky comments about lack of seating and amenities in the D and E wings are pretty much a daily occurrence. Very frequent, and very consistent.

But this one really stood out when I saw it . . .
  1. She was a visitor here from Melbourne, Australia (having brought her family here for a Christmas ski vacation). So much for YYC's official line of "people will just have to get used to the terminal, then everything will be fine". I doubt she's a frequent YYC passenger.
  2. She was so angered by her experience that she complained to Tourism Calgary about it! (She didn't send it to YYC.)
  3. Her caption sums up the issue brilliantly and succinctly: "Moment of truth - design meets experience."

For what it's worth, all of her other posts about her week-long vacation here were glowingly positive. Her only complaint: the departure experience at the new ITB.

It's one thing to be frustrated by your home-town airport ... whether out of pride (and wanting it to be better) or because it's the airport that you use most often. But it's amazing to me that even foreign visitors to our city - people here for once-in-a-lifetime vacations - are frustrated enough to send angry feedback about the new terminal. Wow.

     
     
  #5959  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2017, 12:03 AM
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Wow, she sounds fck'n irate.....

We get it, you (and many others) expected more from this building. Fact of the matter is, if you (3rd person) aren't bright enough to find seating somewhere in the terminal, then how do you explain that you were able to qualify for a credit card, get a driver's license, buy a ticket, buy lift tickets, buy/rent skis, so on and so forth...? Do you need someone on standby to wipe yer arse, too?

The more you highlight stupid travellers, the less apologetic toward them I become. I travel with my kids enough to know to expect the unexpected. For instance, if I really wanted to find a seat, I give myself the benefit of the doubt that I could successfully find one, with absolutely no help from signage. If I'm traveling in a completely different country or continent, then I have a heightened sense of awareness and a greater sense of self-preservation, for lack of a better term. Are *most* travellers not equipped with this basic ability? Now, I realize that in no way does my rant bridge the gap to people that are clearly not equipped to think outside the box, but I will admit that it sorta makes me feel a little better.
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  #5960  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2017, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by alexle View Post
Newleaf cancels flights to the US, blames WestJet (although not by name): https://www.facebook.com/newleaftravel/posts/1072308936211391
They pushed their luck right on WestJet's home turf. No surprise this happened, and they are getting grilled by customers over long delays on New Years Eve.
     
     
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