PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX - Page 649

jjv007 · #**12961** Posted **Dec 26, 2016, 4:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJPhillyBoy

Philly at the 9:00 mark in the video on this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9azGzlvCygA

Merry Christmas.

Pretty cool

hammersklavier · #**12962** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 12:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry King

^ I'm all for it but good luck convincing local urban planners that Columbus blvrd cant and shouldn't become a quaint, low rise, walkable avenue

The idea is less that and more that (as we saw with the (still unfinished) Waterfront Square) the demand just isn't there to support a highrise district ... yet. Cohesive, highly-sought-after swaths of urban fabric is what makes highrises feasible in Philly. We don't seem to have the culture to support Brickell-style high-rise suburbanism-- if we did, or so the thinking goes, we would have seen more of those NoLibs towers get built.

jsbrook · #**12963** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 11:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

The idea is less that and more that (as we saw with the (still unfinished) Waterfront Square) the demand just isn't there to support a highrise district ... yet. Cohesive, highly-sought-after swaths of urban fabric is what makes highrises feasible in Philly. We don't seem to have the culture to support Brickell-style high-rise suburbanism-- if we did, or so the thinking goes, we would have seen more of those NoLibs towers get built.

Right. But I don't want highrise suburbanism on the Delaware. I want highrise urbanism. And it will take even longer before that area is primed to support that and become an extension of the walkable neighborhoods of Center City. Even with a cap over I-95 from Market to Walnut, I suppose there is Columbus Boulevard to deal with. In the interim, I suppose any positive development on the Riverfront is good.

3rd&Brown · #**12964** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 3:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Right. But I don't want highrise suburbanism on the Delaware. I want highrise urbanism. And it will take even longer before that area is primed to support that and become an extension of the walkable neighborhoods of Center City. Even with a cap over I-95 from Market to Walnut, I suppose there is Columbus Boulevard to deal with. In the interim, I suppose any positive development on the Riverfront is good.

Well you're not going to get it there until everywhere else between Washington Avenue and Girard fills in. And even then you might not get it. Because plainly, urbanists don't want to live on Delaware Avenue. No cap is going to change that. For most of it's length, it's a 6 lane highway. And capping it will do little to change that, as the areas of Delaware Avenue that have the land to support widespread development lie above (Spring Garden) a below (Washington) the zone where the cap would go.

Dockside was built 12 years ago? And it is still not sold out. It shows you what kind of person wants to live on Delaware Avenue. Suburbanites who want easy access to 95. There just aren't that many of them.

Add to that, garages, which will be needed, can't be sunk below ground there due to the water table...so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Buildings are oriented to cars, i.e. suburban in nature, etc. Which attracts suburbanites, etc.

Larry King · #**12965** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 4:04 PM**

Zone the entire waterfront for high rises with parking. Require some sort of 1st floor commercial and public access to river, then get out of the way!

jsbrook · #**12966** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 4:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Well you're not going to get it there until everywhere else between Washington Avenue and Girard fills in. And even then you might not get it. Because plainly, urbanists don't want to live on Delaware Avenue. No cap is going to change that. For most of it's length, it's a 6 lane highway. And capping it will do little to change that, as the areas of Delaware Avenue that have the land to support widespread development lie above (Spring Garden) a below (Washington) the zone where the cap would go.

Dockside was built 12 years ago? And it is still not sold out. It shows you what kind of person wants to live on Delaware Avenue. Suburbanites who want easy access to 95. There just aren't that many of them.

Add to that, garages, which will be needed, can't be sunk below ground there due to the water table...so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Buildings are oriented to cars, i.e. suburban in nature, etc. Which attracts suburbanites, etc.

Yes, probably. I'm not talking about the entire stretch supporting highrises, though. I'm talking about the portion between Market and Walnut as an extension of core center city. I guess maybe what you're saying is that waterfront along that stretch is positioned for highrise development regardless.

jsbrook · #**12967** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 4:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry King

Zone the entire waterfront for high rises with parking. Require some sort of 1st floor commercial and public access to river, then get out of the way!

Haha. Maybe. As it stands the area generates little to no development interest. This is the most recent proposal, which was met with lots of skepticism.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/k4...s-apartments-condos-hotel-pennsport.html

Haven't heard any news in the past couple months.

SEFTA · #**12968** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 5:11 PM**

Unfortunately large developments usually lose all connection to urban life. Waterfront Square is completely disengaged from the street and all things associated with street. A fortune for a park capped garage that nobody uses.
With no connectivity to CC and the creation of a pedestrian friendly district, development will continue to be sparse. The draw is the life style of CC. There is little interest in a view of Camden with out the life style that comes with living in a tower in CC. It's the mix of large and small, mixed-use development that seems to work.
It will be hard to convince people that what they want is east of 95 without coordinated district wide plan. Chicago gives a great example on how to infuse life into the waterfront. Penn's Landing is a good start. Infrastructure that will give the illusion that it's an extension of CC will be the best money spent. Using the same parameters as in CC.
Creation of more typical city blocks, when possible. Pedestrian amenities, trees, integrated open spaces (not garage caps), safe sidewalks and distinctive crosswalks, ground level commercial space. These generally don't come into play with huge proposals like Waterfront Square, even tho it is obvious that it's what people are looking for. Funny, the towers they didn't build could still address a street front on Pen Street.
Public spaces and connectivity, the view of Camden is not the big seller. It must be more than just close to something. It should be a destination in itself.

3rd&Brown · #**12969** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 5:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry King

Zone the entire waterfront for high rises with parking. Require some sort of 1st floor commercial and public access to river, then get out of the way!

Meh. That's basically what you have. Has never done any good.

The Waterfront Overlay that was approved a few years back is the best chance we have at urbanizing the zone. Philadelphians don't want Miami-esque development. They simply don't.

And I'm glad that's the case.

SEFTA · #**12970** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 6:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Meh. That's basically what you have. Has never done any good.

The Waterfront Overlay that was approved a few years back is the best chance we have at urbanizing the zone. Philadelphians don't want Miami-esque development. They simply don't.

And I'm glad that's the case.

Is this the most current plan? Is it valid or any news at all on this? I hope so. From what I see it is the right direction.

McBane · #**12971** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 10:12 PM**

I go back and forth on the Delaware Riverfront. On one hand, I get what the city is trying to do: limit heights so that development spreads horizontally, instead of vertically. The problem is that if you're a developer, you want all the demand in your project; you don't want to limit the number of units so some other land owner can build on his property. Also, I just don't envision, like others here, a continuous string of midrises with retail here. Might be better to remove restrictions and allow it to grow organically instead of this top-down planning that most developers likely find unprofitable.

summersm343 · #**12972** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 11:55 PM**

KOZ program is halted

Will not be anymore KOZ zones. Hopefully this is only a temporary thing. This state is f**king idiotic.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politi...ump_of_coal_for_Philly__Coatesville.html

PhilliesPhan · #**12973** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 2:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343

KOZ program is halted

Will not be anymore KOZ zones. Hopefully this is only a temporary thing. This state is f**king idiotic.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politi...ump_of_coal_for_Philly__Coatesville.html

Could this potentially affect the build-out of Schuylkill Yards, since some of the development sites along JFK Boulevard are KOZ-designated? I sure hope not!

Urbanthusiat · #**12974** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 2:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

Could this potentially affect the build-out of Schuylkill Yards, since some of the development sites along JFK Boulevard are KOZ-designated? I sure hope not!

If I read correctly, I believe they aren't creating any new KOZs, but since the rail yards and the area around 30th street are already designated, this shouldn't affect that.

summersm343 · #**12975** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 3:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

Could this potentially affect the build-out of Schuylkill Yards, since some of the development sites along JFK Boulevard are KOZ-designated? I sure hope not!

Any KOZ zones will remain. Schuylkill Yards is already a KOZ, so is uCity Square, Navy Yard, a ton of sites in Center City, etc.

They just won't approve the designation of any new KOZ zones.

Larry King · #**12976** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 3:24 AM**

City council quietly pushing that bill through that made scattered sites owned by favored developers around town KOZ's must have been final straw for gov wolf.

thisisforreal · #**12977** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 1:14 PM**

Has there been a thread created for this 38 story proposal from the other day?

http://philly.curbed.com/2016/12/20/14014322/1301-market-office-tower-renderings-philadelphia

Edit: Nevermind, I found it. For anyone else who visits here based on the Philadelphia search tag, it may be a while before this one is added.

1487 · #**12978** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 1:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry King

City council quietly pushing that bill through that made scattered sites owned by favored developers around town KOZ's must have been final straw for gov wolf.

no its not that. They are saying PA can't afford it due it's current fiscal mess.

Larry King · #**12979** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 1:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

no its not that. They are saying PA can't afford it due it's current fiscal mess.

http://www.phila3-0.org/koz_council_map

^ so these properties will in fact not be KOZ? I think it's a good call by the gov. The lack of transparency on process of picking sites proposed for KOZ in phila was ridiculous.

1487 · #**12980** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 2:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry King

http://www.phila3-0.org/koz_council_map

^ so these properties will in fact not be KOZ? I think it's a good call by the gov. The lack of transparency on process of picking sites proposed for KOZ in phila was ridiculous.

Again, this has nothing to do with City council. This is a statewide decision. They are shutting it down for now so NO ONE is getting new zones. No matter what part of the state you are talking about you can bet that local officials had some role in getting areas nominated for the exemption.