PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

A stadium would be so great for Temple. Having gone to a big football school for law school (U of M), I know how great it is for the school experience and recruiting. It could help complete Temple's transformation from a commuter school and really be great for the city at large. And maybe it's the impetus needed to further bolster the football program and get let into the Big 10...

I can appreciate community concerns, but we're not talking about bulldozing houses to make way for a stadium at Broad & Norris. And it's not analogous to putting a Phillies stadium, with baseball's 6 month season and 162 total games (a good chunk home games), at Broad and Callowhill. I don't think 8 home games a year on Saturdays is really that disruptive to the lives of neighbors. Outside game days, it didn't "disrupt" anything in Ann Arbor. I'm a football fan and loved it, but even professors and others in the area that didn't were not bothered.

Granted, Ann Arbor is not a "city" per se the way larger, more urban cites are, but has anyone polled the neighbors at Yulman Stadium, Gerald Ford Stadium, and Nippert stadium as part of the efforts to get this off the ground? I'd like to see how neighbors actually feel about city stadiums where they exist...

Even if Temple maintains/improves their team's success, they have a 0.0001% chance of getting into the BIG10. Philly is already a PSU market for them and they already grabbed Rutgers to shore up the east coast (as hilariously misguided as that may be). UCONN has a better chance at the Big 10 then Temple. Temple's best chance, assuming continued sucess and alumni support, is the ACC (my preference) or Big 12.

...now, back on topic of if they shold build a stadium. I agree that a stadium wouldn't be as disruptive as it's being made out to be, even if you include concerts, graduation, etc. I think the biggest argument against it is the focus on football over academics. Football is not a profit generator for almost all schools. I get the argument to be made for it being a great recruiting tool and to replace it's image as a commuter school (they're called the Owls because of all the night classes the students take!). I don't think it would hurt the community, but its difficult to see the full cost/benefit to the school. However, all that aside, I selfishly would love to see a stadium there.

[SEFTA]

I thought the topic was highrise development

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Even if Temple maintains/improves their team's success, they have a 0.0001% chance of getting into the BIG10. Philly is already a PSU market for them and they already grabbed Rutgers to shore up the east coast (as hilariously misguided as that may be). UCONN has a better chance at the Big 10 then Temple. Temple's best chance, assuming continued sucess and alumni support, is the ACC (my preference) or Big 12.

The Big 12 effectively shut all expansion talk for a while earlier this fall. It's not gonna happen until/unless one of the other Power conferences decide to move to 16, which is hopefully far enough in the future to give our little conference room to gel. Now if we could stop shitting the bed in bowls...

I'll also note there's a clear pecking order here, and my bet is that the next conference realignment will see changes happen to the Big 12 first for various reasons, with a downward cascade that will affect things even deep into FCS conferences.

...now, back on topic of if they shold build a stadium. I agree that a stadium wouldn't be as disruptive as it's being made out to be, even if you include concerts, graduation, etc. I think the biggest argument against it is the focus on football over academics. Football is not a profit generator for almost all schools. I get the argument to be made for it being a great recruiting tool and to replace it's image as a commuter school (they're called the Owls because of all the night classes the students take!). I don't think it would hurt the community, but its difficult to see the full cost/benefit to the school. However, all that aside, I selfishly would love to see a stadium there.

A lot more has been made of athletics-over-academics than really exists IMO. By far the worst offender of this is LSU, whose boosters are notoriously skinflint when it comes to their endowment but happily pay for practically everything nice their athletic department has. But this is the outlier, not the norm. Even in the SEC, the conference best known for its athletics-über-alles attitude, the vast majority of schools that have different endowments for academics and athletics see significantly more contributions to their academic endowments than their athletic ones.

Academically, over the past decade Temple has risen meteorically. It is now on par with Kansas and Utah in the rankings, renovated or added a —-ton of academic and residential space, roughly doubled its endowment, and is now building the shiniest most badass library in the city right on campus. There's a push not to be a commuter-school afterthought anymore, and the OCS is just a small part of that.

[eixample]

I just can't see how a building that would be a blank wall, pedestrian-environment deadening superblock for 98% of the year (a double superblock really because they would have to take 15th street from the grid) and a mess of noise and mass of humanity the other 2% would be anything but awful for the community.

Isn't there some industrial property in North Philly that would suit this better? This just seems an awful project for North Broad in the really long term as the whole city improves.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by eixample

I just can't see how a building that would be a blank wall, pedestrian-environment deadening superblock for 98% of the year (a double superblock really because they would have to take 15th street from the grid) and a mess of noise and mass of humanity the other 2% would be anything but awful for the community.

it's already athletic fields. Building classrooms, locker rooms, and more stands around it isn't going to end "the community" (whatever the hell that means). If financing is in place Temple should be able to do what they want to do on their own property. Addressing street level concerns and traffic are important and obviously would be a crucial factor in the current feasibility study being done. I personally think it will add to the street vibrancy and would be better than the current chain link fence. I think it is a win and a place that can hold a lot more than 2 hours worth of football 8 times a year.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

I thought the topic was highrise development

Lincoln Financial Field is 150 ft, the height of a 12 story building. I'm fine moving on, though. But there should be a thread where this can be discussed. It ties in closely to development.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Even if Temple maintains/improves their team's success, they have a 0.0001% chance of getting into the BIG10. Philly is already a PSU market for them and they already grabbed Rutgers to shore up the east coast (as hilariously misguided as that may be).

Kick Rutgers out and replace it with Temple... Same tv market = money issues solved.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Kick Rutgers out and replace it with Temple... Same tv market = money issues solved.

Temple is a natural fit for the ACC, a couple more top 25 seasons and it should happen.

[City Wide]

If financing is in place Temple should be able to do what they want to do on their own property.

Really? You do know about zoning don't you. There's always the gas station argument to drag out for those who think zoning is some kind of commie plot to take over the world.
Temple is very much part of a community and if they act like a bull in a china shop they will end up paying the cost in the long term.
Having said that, I think if the bowl of a new stadium was well below grade and a real effort was made to make the street presence alive, it could work. But IMO if built it should be well east of Broad St.

[acenturi]

Is this Forum no longer moderated ???
I mean it's bad enough that we have to be blasted with 10 Foot High Text posts. Enough with Temple, Temple, Temple..... I thought this was the HIGHRISE Forum. Suggest consider all of these OFF TOPIC posts be moved to here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=160247.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by eixample

I just can't see how a building that would be a blank wall, pedestrian-environment deadening superblock for 98% of the year (a double superblock really because they would have to take 15th street from the grid) and a mess of noise and mass of humanity the other 2% would be anything but awful for the community.

Isn't there some industrial property in North Philly that would suit this better? This just seems an awful project for North Broad in the really long term as the whole city improves.

The athletics fields being proposed were historically the site of Monument Cemetery. Now the twist is, I can't tell from the old street maps whether 15th, 16th, and Berks historically ran through the cemetery property or not.

Originally Posted by City Wide

But IMO if built it should be well east of Broad St.

Why? What site is there well east of Broad? The large sites that would fit such a facility (Broad & Norris, former William Penn High, former Baker Bowl) are all on Broad...

Originally Posted by acenturi

Is this Forum no longer moderated ???
I mean it's bad enough that we have to be blasted with 10 Foot High Text posts. Enough with Temple, Temple, Temple..... I thought this was the HIGHRISE Forum. Suggest consider all of these OFF TOPIC posts be moved to here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=160247.

The mods are Temple alums.

But seriously, this has always been the thread were we discuss more large-scale issues. The lowrise thread is much more strongly development-focused.

[eixample]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

it's already athletic fields. Building classrooms, locker rooms, and more stands around it isn't going to end "the community" (whatever the hell that means). If financing is in place Temple should be able to do what they want to do on their own property. Addressing street level concerns and traffic are important and obviously would be a crucial factor in the current feasibility study being done. I personally think it will add to the street vibrancy and would be better than the current chain link fence. I think it is a win and a place that can hold a lot more than 2 hours worth of football 8 times a year.

Temple doesn't own 15th Street and some other land use relief would be required to build a stadium so it can't just do what it wants. Putting a stadium in fixes these lots essentially permanently as a stadium no matter what happens to the surrounding neighborhoods in 30 years; athletic fields don't have that same issue.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by eixample

Temple doesn't own 15th Street and some other land use relief would be required to build a stadium so it can't just do what it wants. Putting a stadium in fixes these lots essentially permanently as a stadium no matter what happens to the surrounding neighborhoods in 30 years; athletic fields don't have that same issue.

Well that is the real question and why complaining about certain aspects of the project before the school has even released the results of their own feasibility study is premature. The university wouldn't build a stadium without addressing concerns, closing 15th street being the biggest one of the biggest. Sorry for continuing the conversation, I'm done, people should bring it up in the low rise discussion if they want to talk about it correct? Or is it the off topic?

[Knight Hospitaller]

I have to second, third, fourth, that this has gotten way off the topic of highrise development.

[jjv007]

I always got the impression that this was also the thread for major development projects and ideas.

[Plokoon11]

I hope everyone has a happy holiday and here is hoping that next year brings more construction news and proposals!

[jsbrook]

Highrise development on Philadelphia's rivers: possible? I would love to see it. In thinking on this recently, I think the Delaware may be a more viable candidate than the Schuykill. But it's a decades-long project. I think it would take capping pf i-95 from at least Market through Walnut and rezoning along those stretches. The current mater plan contemplates low- to mid-rise development, which I think is fine for most of the stretch from Oregon to Allegheny. but it would be nice to see some highrise condos on SOME small stretch. Thoughts?

[Larry King]

^ I'm all for it but good luck convincing local urban planners that Columbus blvrd cant and shouldn't become a quaint, low rise, walkable avenue

[SJPhillyBoy]

Philly at the 9:00 mark in the video on this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9azGzlvCygA

Merry Christmas.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Highrise development on Philadelphia's rivers: possible? I would love to see it. In thinking on this recently, I think the Delaware may be a more viable candidate than the Schuykill. But it's a decades-long project. I think it would take capping pf i-95 from at least Market through Walnut and rezoning along those stretches. The current mater plan contemplates low- to mid-rise development, which I think is fine for most of the stretch from Oregon to Allegheny. but it would be nice to see some highrise condos on SOME small stretch. Thoughts?

" First " congratulations to all who survived the Christmas weekend and please try like hell to survive next weekend .

With regard to the above statement , whats the deal with those two giant 100' tall pillars of concrete at Penn's Landing .
Originally suppose to be support anchors for a tramway across the river but now just big blobs of wasted energy , material
and money . Capping I-95 has always been a great idea for lots of reasons but may take another 100' concrete " erection "
before that happens .......... To all , have a safe , healthy and prosperous new year .