New Downtown Calgary Arena

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

I will give Suburbia a handy if the arena ends up there!

I was at CREB for a course and took a little drive around the area. WAY to much development and infrastructure would be needed to make an arena there. Firstly, sure the LRT is right there but from a vehicular perspective the access is going to be a lot of trouble. Sure there is potential for a right-in-right out from Memorial westbound but it would be a nightmare. Secondly, access from eastbound memorial would require a dedicated overpass. Access of Barlow trail would be a nightmare and let's just face it. There will never be an entertainment district in the midst of an industrial park. The only thing going for this site is the view.

Isn't there a closed/never opened dedicated underpass there?




https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0450066,-114.0044313,224m/data=!3m1!1e3

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

I will give Suburbia a handy if the arena ends up there!

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Brit!

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Isn't there a closed/never opened dedicated underpass there?




https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0450066,-114.0044313,224m/data=!3m1!1e3

Would that be sufficient for the massive number of cars that would use it? looks like a single lane, so I would guess no...

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

I will give Suburbia a handy if the arena ends up there!

I was at CREB for a course and took a little drive around the area. WAY to much development and infrastructure would be needed to make an arena there. Firstly, sure the LRT is right there but from a vehicular perspective the access is going to be a lot of trouble. Sure there is potential for a right-in-right out from Memorial westbound but it would be a nightmare. Secondly, access from eastbound memorial would require a dedicated overpass. Access of Barlow trail would be a nightmare and let's just face it. There will never be an entertainment district in the midst of an industrial park. The only thing going for this site is the view.

You talk about having an LRT station "right there" as if that was a trivial point, but sure, all in all there are detractors about the site also. A massive positive of the site is the size, which lets face it, knock things like railtown off the list. What the massive size of the site plus the entire maxbell lands on the other side of the station provide is a huge development opportunity. So now you're talking a bigger project but with massive potential, and thus the ability to make some (largish) adjustments to roads. Hack, Next required moving a massive road - this larger redevelopment opportunity could justify some in/out adjustments.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Isn't there a closed/never opened dedicated underpass there?


https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0450066,-114.0044313,224m/data=!3m1!1e3

Yes - that is correct. And of course that would be in addition to the number of entries already available.

Additionally, as the LRT is a walk through (and would likely need to be redeveloped a pinch anyway), those who choose to drive (and I don't get why you would, but whatever) could also be directed to the south IE a re-done maxbell side, and then simply walk through the station to the other side.

I think the challenge with have with the detractors is that they have already made up their mind (like republican voters). What is better is to think about that massive area with bigger picture thinking. You guys are thinking too small.

[McMurph]

I'm going to give Suburbia credit on this one. Firepark is entirely doable. It would be logistically easy. If people think access will be tough, just look at what is going in at Currie Barracks with a single upgraded intersection. If this were 10 or 20 years ago (back when the Senators built the arena in Kanata, for example) Firepark would look like a genius of a site.

The issue isn't if Firepark is possible, it is if it is desirable. Most of us, most NHL teams and cities and the Flames are in agreement that it's not the sort of location that we really want to develop. Suburbia and the NHL of the 1990's disagree.

[Ferreth]

Firepark is the best site as far as car access goes, I would rank West Village second, and Railtown far behind. Railtown is potentially the best site in terms of LRT access, I'll give WV a slight edge to Firepark on being closer to DT and transfers to the other line(s).

Barlow is former Highway #2 ROW - it has room to upgrade to full freeway status should that be desired. I don't even think that is needed - a much cheaper upgrade to 6 lanes to the TCH would suffice. Any arguments you guys care to make about road failure on surrounding roads to Firepark can be applied more so to anything around WV and Railtown.

That being said, Firepark blows from a surrounding supportive development. So, a stadium should at the minimum include a hotel, and some modest retail. It's going to be a car and transit destination - which will work just fine the way this city travels now, and at least into the mid term future. Overall, I still rank it #3 in the list of potential sites, and not that far back either. If that site is available to the Flames, it absolutely will be considered, regardless of any potential urban spin off development that could be had from WV or Railtown.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by McMurph

I'm going to give Suburbia credit on this one. Firepark is entirely doable. It would be logistically easy. If people think access will be tough, just look at what is going in at Currie Barracks with a single upgraded intersection. If this were 10 or 20 years ago (back when the Senators built the arena in Kanata, for example) Firepark would look like a genius of a site.

The issue isn't if Firepark is possible, it is if it is desirable. Most of us, most NHL teams and cities and the Flames are in agreement that it's not the sort of location that we really want to develop. Suburbia and the NHL of the 1990's disagree.

Kanata vs. Firepark is a rediculous comparison. Kanata would be like building in Cochrane. Firepark is basically inner city.

But thanks for the honesty on several fronts in your post.

[technomad]

Firepark has some great access potential, and would definitely be better than WV, but IMO railtown is still far better.

Essentially status quo with the saddledome for road access and parking, but it's the proximity to 3 LRT lines that seals the deal. No amount of road access upgrades around firepark can compete with that

That said, if the 2026 olympic bid does go through, I think firepark would be an ideal location for security forces, and the site could be taken on by DND afterwards as a replacement for a couple of their older facilities. (NOT Mewatta!) Airport proximity is a big bonus there too.

Don't think there's a huge market of people that fly in/out for hockey games?

[CalgaryAlex]

I think a new arena should be within walking distance of at least one established mainstreet. Firepark is 2km away (as the crow flies!) from Inglewood and 1.5km away from International Ave. You'd be putting an arena in a dead zone surrounded by an industrial park.

I don't think Remington will go for an arena on the Railtown lands. Since WV seems to be a non-starter, I actually think one of the most likely outcomes will be that the new arena will be built on the current Stampede parking lots. With the Green Line now definitely using 12th Ave, this would be a decent location:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0401793,-114.0518319,290m/data=!3m1!1e3

[suburbia]

Railtown is too small for a combined arena / football stadium and cannot be had for this for a number of reasons anyway. We already know this. Additionally, if it is a combined facility, most of the other options on the table also go away. If you're talking about the north Stampede Park lands, there is space, but they will likely not throw away their existing plans for a combined football / arena project.

When we think of redevelopment of firepark and the maxbell lands, that means a LOT of development and not just the stadia. Would be an ideal project for the Olympics, and make a massive positive impact on the area.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

You'd be putting an arena in a dead zone surrounded by an industrial park.

This is why Firepark is a terrible location and there is only 1 person who keeps bringing it up.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

I think a new arena should be within walking distance of at least one established mainstreet. Firepark is 2km away (as the crow flies!) from Inglewood and 1.5km away from International Ave. You'd be putting an arena in a dead zone surrounded by an industrial park.

I don't think Remington will go for an arena on the Railtown lands. Since WV seems to be a non-starter, I actually think one of the most likely outcomes will be that the new arena will be built on the current Stampede parking lots. With the Green Line now definitely using 12th Ave, this would be a decent location:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0401793,-114.0518319,290m/data=!3m1!1e3

But if the Flames ownership wants total control as everyone seems to think is the case, why would they agree to essentially maintain the status quo? That's why I also believe that they will not agree to a proposal that does not result in a new arena and a new stadium that are in the same location. The City's Plan B makes zero sense if the intention is to create an entertainment district that will actually be an economic generator. I don't see building a new arena a few blocks away from the current one resulting in a better area. A $17 million upgrade to McMahon is a complete joke and is insulting to fans. If they can't do this right then they should wait until they can as far as I'm concerned.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by McMurph

I'm going to give Suburbia credit on this one. Firepark is entirely doable. It would be logistically easy.

Originally Posted by Ferreth

Firepark is the best site as far as car access goes, I would rank West Village second, and Railtown far behind.

Originally Posted by technomad

Firepark has some great access potential, and would definitely be better than WV, but IMO railtown is still far better.
<>
... if the 2026 olympic bid does go through, I think firepark would be an ideal location for security forces
<>
Airport proximity is a big bonus there too.

Originally Posted by suburbia

When we think of redevelopment of firepark and the maxbell lands, that means a LOT of development and not just the stadia. Would be an ideal project for the Olympics, and make a massive positive impact on the area.

And then you get ...

Originally Posted by Calgarian

This is why Firepark is a terrible location and there is only 1 person who keeps bringing it up.

Hey "Calgarian" - while it worked for Trump, I suspect the concept of "keeping repeating a lie till everyone believes it" will not work with this educated crowd.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by suburbia

And then you get ...



Hey "Calgarian" - while it worked for Trump, I suspect the concept of "keeping repeating a lie till everyone believes it" will not work with this educated crowd.

Are you actually this obtuse, or is it just a facade? I said 1 person keeps bringing this up, the fact that someone somewhat agreed with you doesn't change the fact that you are the only one who keeps bringing this up and this conversation wouldn't be happening for the 50th time if you hadn't brought it up again. You should be a politician man, you deflect the point very well and are completely ignorant to that fact (or at least you let on that you are).

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Are you actually this obtuse, or is it just a facade? I said 1 person keeps bringing this up, the fact that someone somewhat agreed with you doesn't change the fact that you are the only one who keeps bringing this up and this conversation wouldn't be happening for the 50th time if you hadn't brought it up again. You should be a politician man, you deflect the point very well and are completely ignorant to that fact (or at least you let on that you are).

People also consistently bring up west village, railtown, the stampede grouds, and other possibilities. Big deal. You don't run an effective society by shutting down the views of (numerous) others who do not agree with you, as you are trying to do. It is ironic that you suggest I should be a politician, whereas it is you who would be able to win in certain jurisdictions; a master of wedge politics. This must be the 50th time you've dumped on me for raising a legitimate option. Don't you get tired of it?

[Calgarian]

So you are obtuse, thanks for the clarification!

[UofC.engineer]

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I still fail to see why the city needs a new arena and stadium? Sure the Saddledome can't house big acts but it is an architecturally unique building and an icon of the city. Also, what happens to it once a new stadium gets built? Sure, McMahon is lacking in many qualities...but couldn't a renovation provide a relief to many of the issues. Unless there was a large swath of inner city land that was derelict with no development on the horizon then I'd be more partial to the idea but as I will list below, it seems that none of the avenues are really ideal.

West Village:
A new stadium/arena chews up valuable river front land. Implement the original 2012 plan once, and only once East Village is a full build out.

http://www.calgary.ca/UEP/ESM/Pages/Cont...est-Village-area-redevelopment-plan.aspx

Fire park:
Besides a C-train station, Firepark is too far away from anything. It is surrounded by a sea of industrial area.

Railtown:
Too small an area.

[Luk_o]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I still fail to see why the city needs a new arena and stadium? Sure the Saddledome can't house big acts but it is an architecturally unique building and an icon of the city. Also, what happens to it once a new stadium gets built? Sure, McMahon is lacking in many qualities...but couldn't a renovation provide a relief to many of the issues. Unless there was a large swath of inner city land that was derelict with no development on the horizon then I'd be more partial to the idea but as I will list below, it seems that none of the avenues are really ideal.

West Village:
A new stadium/arena chews up valuable river front land. Implement the original 2012 plan once, and only once East Village is a full build out.

http://www.calgary.ca/UEP/ESM/Pages/Cont...est-Village-area-redevelopment-plan.aspx

Fire park:
Besides a C-train station, Firepark is too far away from anything. It is surrounded by a sea of industrial area.

Railtown:
Too small an area.

For a city as big as Calgary, the Saddledome will need to be replaced for a multitude of reasons, plain and simple. If not now, in the near future so plan on integrating now into the inner city while there are still plots and options available. I do agree, however that a field house does not need to be part of a downtown plan, and McMahon can get away with a quality renovation based on the current tenants and its use - In all honesty I think having the Stamps play out of the permanently enclosed retractable bleacher field house will be horrible. Put the new arena on the greyhound site, but use the land for the field house portion for mixed use/residential. Develop land north of McMahon for city fieldhouse in the future, Stamps/Dinos stay at McMahon.

Edit: I shouldn't say that the Saddledome needs to be physically replaced or torn down per say, but the city needs a new arena / event center up to current standards.