ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by scania

I totally agree. The nightlife here lacks a true pulse. Having different events here and there are cool. But it would be awesome to have a lively area that is bustling at night.

The best bar/club/nightlife districts in cities across the country are usually in neighborhoods with low rise historic buildings. The same is pretty much also true for Atlanta: East Atlanta Village, Atkins Park, Little Five Points, Edgewood Avenue district, etc...you get the idea. Midtown sort of lacks this aside from Crescent Avenue and even Crescent Avenue will be bulldozed for skyscrapers sooner or later(look at the 43 story hotel that will replace the clubs, bars, and restaurants at 12th and Crescent). The problem is the trendy established bars and nightclubs can't afford the massive rents in these new buildings.

People always say there's two sides to every story. Well, this is the dark side of gentrification.

I wouldn't mind a movie theatre with no setback in Midtown either at Peachtree and 12th or Peachtree at 10th.. That would be bring people on the streets.

[1lifealex]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

The best bar/club/nightlife districts in cities across the country are usually in neighborhoods with low rise historic buildings. The same is pretty much also true for Atlanta: East Atlanta Village, Atkins Park, Little Five Points, Edgewood Avenue district, etc...you get the idea. Midtown sort of lacks this aside from Crescent Avenue and even Crescent Avenue will be bulldozed for skyscrapers sooner or later(look at the 43 story hotel that will replace the clubs, bars, and restaurants at 12th and Crescent). The problem is the trendy established bars and nightclubs can't afford the massive rents in these new buildings.

People always say there's two sides to every story. Well, this is the dark side of gentrification.

I wouldn't mind a movie theatre with no setback in Midtown either at Peachtree and 12th or Peachtree at 10th.. That would be bring people on the streets.

Just to correct you the 43 story hotel/condo that you are referring to will not be replacing clubs bars or restaurants it's replacing a two-story apartment building

[scania]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

Nice! I had forgotten this project was going on. A lot of decent infill going in around Arts Center. I'm looking forward to the (hopefully) heavily increased pedestrian activity coming to Midtown. A lot more activity going on than a few years ago, but it often still feels quiet. I find the BeltLine significantly more active than any street in Atlanta. I guess that shouldn't be too much of a shock though, as green space and parks are essentially Atlanta's "beach", where people will want to visit.

It's not a surprising to me either. I said a maybe a year or so ago that I wouldn't necessarily call it a bad thing, but the type of urban feel that many of us on here desires for Midtown, the Beltline takes away from that type of growth.

The buildings going up are very exciting. As a whole, Atlanta has some very nice architecture with these new skyscrapers...especially in comparison to other cities across the country.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by 1lifealex

Just to correct you the 43 story hotel/condo that you are referring to will not be replacing clubs bars or restaurants it's replacing a two-story apartment building

It's replacing the club that's on the corner of 12th and Crescent. It's also replacing the commercial houses along 12th.

https://goo.gl/maps/Ce2o2QsX58C2

All of that it's replacing. Frontpage news as well as the low rise apartment complex.

[scania]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

The best bar/club/nightlife districts in cities across the country are usually in neighborhoods with low rise historic buildings. The same is pretty much also true for Atlanta: East Atlanta Village, Atkins Park, Little Five Points, Edgewood Avenue district, etc...you get the idea. Midtown sort of lacks this aside from Crescent Avenue and even Crescent Avenue will be bulldozed for skyscrapers sooner or later(look at the 43 story hotel that will replace the clubs, bars, and restaurants at 12th and Crescent). The problem is the trendy established bars and nightclubs can't afford the massive rents in these new buildings.

People always say there's two sides to every story. Well, this is the dark side of gentrification.

I wouldn't mind a movie theatre with no setback in Midtown either at Peachtree and 12th or Peachtree at 10th.. That would be bring people on the streets.

What you say is very true to a large degree. But one major difference is that the bar/club scene is still close to the highrise areas of the city. this spills the intensity into the city to where so many lounges and restaurants are filled with energy and excitement is still prevalent on the streets.

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

It's replacing the club that's on the corner of 12th and Crescent. It's also replacing the commercial houses along 12th.

https://goo.gl/maps/Ce2o2QsX58C2

All of that it's replacing. Frontpage news as well as the low rise apartment complex.

That's not correct. At the DRC meeting the footprint only included the apartment building. They're sharing a drive between the new building and Lure as valet/hotel drop off for the new building.

Lure, Front Page, and the little club will stay, for now.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

That's not correct. At the DRC meeting the footprint only included the apartment building. They're sharing a drive between the new building and Lure as valet/hotel drop off for the new building.

Lure, Front Page, and the little club will stay, for now.

Are you sure? I was always under the impression it replaces everything on that block essentially. Wow. I guess I was wrong then. I apologize for spreading bad information.

[jwbab]

Originally Posted by scania

It's not a surprising to me either. I said a maybe a year or so ago that I wouldn't necessarily call it a bad thing, but the type of urban feel that many of us on here desires for Midtown, the Beltline takes away from that type of growth.

THIS ^^^^^^^

When the Midtown Mile was first envisioned as a retail district, the retail nodes at Westside, the Eastside Beltline, and Atlantic Station did not exist. The success of those developments, unfortunately, has come at the expense of the Midtown Mile vision. As a result, Midtown has to get a lot denser to support what today would be largely redundant retail/shopping districts. 12th & Midtown seems to be ignoring this reality.

The good news is that Midtown is getting denser at an increasing rate. I think Midtown needs to focus more on live-ability with mundane every day retail (like grocery and corner butcher/baker/c-stores) rather than the high end trophy retail and restaurants. In time, when Midtown has matured into a more dense, liveable neighborhood, a retail/shopping district will become more viable.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Are you sure? I was always under the impression it replaces everything on that block essentially. Wow. I guess I was wrong then. I apologize for spreading bad information.

Yes, he's correct. It's the apartment complex. The restaurants and bars remain for now. Selig has acquired a lot of property at the southern location though and is expected to expand. Parking for SLS is a joint venture between SLS and the future Selig development, which is still unknown to the public.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by jwbab

I think Midtown needs to focus more on live-ability with mundane every day retail (like grocery and corner butcher/baker/c-stores) rather than the high end trophy retail and restaurants. In time, when Midtown has matured into a more dense, liveable neighborhood, a retail/shopping district will become more viable.

Agreed. Atlanta in general should be focusing on this to create a livable environment. Not everywhere needs to be luxurious immediately. Focus on what makes quality of life convenient for those living around, then let the higher income destinations come in once there's already an established community. 13/14th Street is the densest block in Atlanta. People don't want a convenient walk to an Apple store. They want a convenient walk to a grocer, a park, and some entertainment.

[MdtwnATL]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

Service was wildly inconsistent, but the food was good and imo actually a decent value. For $12 or so you could get a very good meal.

You've gotta wonder what rents are to make that development so difficult to succeed in. Max's Wine Dive, whatever that pizza place before Ribalta was. The area often feels like a cluster of overpriced, undermanaged out of town chains.

Ribalta is the same ownership as Piola was. They just closed down to redesign and rebrand.

I never really cared for Mi Cocina. There are much better Tex Mex restaurants in Atlanta, and in the Midtown area at that. Not surprised it didn't make it - it was in a HUGE space, and everyone knows those rents in those buildings are sky high. Just wish they'd get a sure-bet kind of place in there.

[Pemgin]

Originally Posted by MdtwnATL

Ribalta is the same ownership as Piola was. They just closed down to redesign and rebrand.

I never really cared for Mi Cocina. There are much better Tex Mex restaurants in Atlanta, and in the Midtown area at that. Not surprised it didn't make it - it was in a HUGE space, and everyone knows those rents in those buildings are sky high. Just wish they'd get a sure-bet kind of place in there.

primo location for a Chili's

[MdtwnATL]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

primo location for a Chili's

Hahahah ummm, no. More like something from Concentrics or 5th Group.

[Hokiehaven]

Originally Posted by atlwarrior

I keep saying Midtown need to add more live entertainment and not focus entirely on retail. I think that's the final element of getting tourist and locals to support existing retail in the area on the daily basis.

I've always felt the same, aside from being livable, focus on being the cultural hub more of ATL.

The area already has the High, Fox, Puppetry Arts, Synchronicity Theatre, World Improve Theatre, Center Stage, more focus on the local arts and culture scene I think would make it stand out even more.

I saw Ghastly Dreadfuls last week at Puppetry Arts, why aren't they and other focusing on doing a different shows every quarter for adults, late night entertainment?

If there were just a couple really good, local, creative entertainment options, it would do wonders for the people walking around the area even more than it is, live music, live comedy, sketch comedy more. And Midtown already has established itself as the cultural hub of the city, that is what will get tourists to flock to Midtown and that will drive the restaurants and inevitably retail.

I agree that those things tend to be in lower areas, but Midtown is a mix of both still, it's not all high rises, though rents are certainly much higher, but I'm thinking of the strip in Austin, TX where they have a couple real creative theatres.

[Hokiehaven]

Originally Posted by MdtwnATL

Ribalta is the same ownership as Piola was. They just closed down to redesign and rebrand.

I never really cared for Mi Cocina. There are much better Tex Mex restaurants in Atlanta, and in the Midtown area at that. Not surprised it didn't make it - it was in a HUGE space, and everyone knows those rents in those buildings are sky high. Just wish they'd get a sure-bet kind of place in there.

I agree, not a fan of Mi Cocina, though surprised as they seemed to be relatively busy, but I thought I heard that CB2 was complaining about ridiculous rents when they left, and if a corporate place like them can't survive, then good luck to a smaller chain like Mi Cocina.

Anyway, where you go for Tex-Mex in Midtown then?

[Street Advocate]

How long has the crane been up at North & Line?? Either i am blind and missed it a handful of times or it was relatively recent??

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by jwbab

The good news is that Midtown is getting denser at an increasing rate. I think Midtown needs to focus more on live-ability with mundane every day retail (like grocery and corner butcher/baker/c-stores) rather than the high end trophy retail and restaurants. In time, when Midtown has matured into a more dense, liveable neighborhood, a retail/shopping district will become more viable.

100% agree. the only reason so much retail in midtown is empty is that the rents are being artificially inflated to attract super high-end retail and keep "undesirables" (aka middle class people and ethnic groups) out. this is manipulation of the market and it's only made possible by offsetting the losses in retail with the rents they're getting from the apartments, which have a higher market rate. the city really should intervene and require some kind of separation in ownership between the retail/residential portions to prevent this kind of collusion.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

100% agree. the only reason so much retail in midtown is empty is that the rents are being artificially inflated to attract super high-end retail and keep "undesirables" (aka middle class people and ethnic groups) out. this is manipulation of the market and it's only made possible by offsetting the losses in retail with the rents they're getting from the apartments, which have a higher market rate. the city really should intervene and require some kind of separation in ownership between the retail/residential portions to prevent this kind of collusion.

Did you know that 1010 Midtown is a condo building - so not quite sure your point is being made here considering it's probably had the largest vacancies out of the entire Midtown area high-rises as previously discussed.

+Metropolis (another condo building) has had separate retail ownership - which switched hands a couple of times (FYI- Jamestown used to own it);
+Loudermilk owns/or owned the retail rights to Viewpoint and eventually developed the Seventh Midtown condo development.
+Plaza Midtown has hit a point where retail turnover should start landing better tenants (we're getting a Pho-King in Midtown ya'll) not to mention Public is a stronghold not only for GA Tech students but for Midtowners.

As far as rentals go:

+Alta Midtown might own its retail but it's still under construction with retail build-outs planned through next spring - including another Dancing Goats coffee shop outpost as well as Babalu Tacos and Tapas (who will hopefully force Prickly Pear to be replaced by a better tenant across the street).
+AMLI/Post Properties don't really do retail - which is okay as long as they address the street properly.
+The Skyhouses seem to be doing better than 1010 Midtown at least with some active use - though they always will struggle with addressing the street since they're prototypical in design.

[Street Advocate]

10th & Monroe (1016 Monroe) mixed use RFP back on the table. Proposals are to include 20-40% affordable housing.

[MdtwnATL]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

100% agree. the only reason so much retail in midtown is empty is that the rents are being artificially inflated to attract super high-end retail and keep "undesirables" (aka middle class people and ethnic groups) out. this is manipulation of the market and it's only made possible by offsetting the losses in retail with the rents they're getting from the apartments, which have a higher market rate. the city really should intervene and require some kind of separation in ownership between the retail/residential portions to prevent this kind of collusion.

There are no apartments in 1010 Midtown or 1065/1075 Peachtree.