Tsawwassen First Nation Updates

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Pinion

That a reserve actually got their shit together to do anything of this scale is relatively impressive. The reserve near me has been talking about a mega mall at the north end of Ironworkers for what seems like decades. And the other north shore one has been talking about condos around Park Royal for nearly as long.

Am very familiar with the Tsawwassen FN as I grew up in Tsawwassen. They had to endure the then BC Dept. of Highways punching through Hwy 17 and the causeway through their reserve back in the late 1950's, which resulted in the demolishing of their longhouse, church, and other residential structures without any compensation.

They lived in third world conditions into the 1980's with dilapidated housing, rusting old cars on stilts in front, etc. As a matter of fact, the NW corner of Hwy 17/52nd Street was the locale of a dilapidated old house with an outhouse in the back. Knew the FN family that resided in same. In the photo above, that area is a portion of the Tsawwassen Mills parking lot.

Later, the TFN engaged in some economic development including constructing a campground/RV park at the SW portion of the Hwy 17 causeway entrance in the early 1980's. And then leasing land for Splashdown Waterpark.

In the mid-1980's, a portion of lands up on English Bluff remained as part of the TFN reserve. Back in the mid-1950's, the TFN sold a large abutting parcel on English Bluff to a developer (when FNs could still sell reserve lands). The remaining TFN lands were developed into a high-end SFD residential subdivision (Stahaken) into the 1990's on 99-year lot leases.

Into the 1990's, the TFN developed a condominium project (Tsatsu Shores) below English Bluff on Tsawwassen Beach (had a hell of a time as Delta would not grant water/waste-water connections to same).

Chief Kim Baird successfully negotiated their new treaty and yes the lands added were mostly Class 1 ALR lands. But what are they going to do with it? Farm it? Like everyone else they want highest and best use.

So they are on their way to developing retail commercial, residential, and industrial on most of their treaty lands. Can't blame 'em as they want economic development and a higher standard of living like everyone else.

The TFN has come a long way from living in third world impoverishment to a first world standard of living including housing, employment, etc. Kudos to them.

No different than the Westbank FN in West Kelowna developing their lands into residential (~5,000 non-FN reside on same) and retail/commercial, for example.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

The First Nations groups along the Northern Gateway are a different group from Tsawwassen. And I don't mean that in nationality, but they're entirely different people. They don't have to think alike. "The land" might be important to some groups and not as much to others. I did a project with a First Nations group this past summer and their views and motives are really not any different from ours.

Not exactly in terms of northern FNs. High-profile Haisla chief Ellis Ross in Kitimat (who opposed the NGP) but supports LNG is now the BC Liberal candidate in the local riding of Skeena - supported by other local FN chiefs such as Kitselas FN chief Joe Bevan and BC regional chief of the Assembly of First Nations Shane Gottfriedson. All attended his nomination meeting. Haisla chief Ellis Ross' reason for running? "Because the BC NDP oppose every project in our region". Ross wants economic development/employment opportunities to lift his people out of impoverished third world conditions as well.

And northern Vancouver Island Nanwakolas FN Council President/Chief Dallas Smith is now the BC Liberal candidate for North Island - the same fella that assisted in establishing the Great Bear Rain Forest. His reason? Also economic development to lift his impoverished people out of their third world poverty conditions.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Not exactly in terms of northern FNs. High-profile Haisla chief Ellis Ross in Kitimat (who opposed the NGP) but supports LNG is now the BC Liberal candidate in the local riding of Skeena - supported by other local FN chiefs such as Kitselas FN chief Joe Bevan and BC regional chief of the Assembly of First Nations Shane Gottfriedson. All attended his nomination meeting. Haisla chief Ellis Ross' reason for running? "Because the BC NDP oppose every project in our region". Ross wants economic development/employment opportunities to lift his people out of impoverished third world conditions as well.

And northern Vancouver Island Nanwakolas FN Council President/Chief Dallas Smith is now the BC Liberal candidate for North Island - the same fella that assisted in establishing the Great Bear Rain Forest. His reason? Also economic development to lift his impoverished people out of their third world poverty conditions.

My point wasn't meant to say all northern First Nations oppose those kinds of projects, but more so that you can't lump these different people into one group.

My second point was toned down, but it agrees with you. What I really meant to say is that natives are just as driven by economic development and profit as we are.

[officedweller]

Take Hwy 17, not 17A - you avoid the merge.

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Well... this puppy is now officially open.... with typical sluggish traffic to boot...

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Take Hwy 17, not 17A - you avoid the merge.

Better yet. Take Hwy 17A and exit at Deltaport Way. Takes ya right to Arthur Drive/52nd St. and enter at the rear parking lot. Quickest way.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

My point wasn't meant to say all northern First Nations oppose those kinds of projects, but more so that you can't lump these different people into one group.

My second point was toned down, but it agrees with you. What I really meant to say is that natives are just as driven by economic development and profit as we are.

I think that this identity conflict / problem does not stem from Native groups themselves (they are diverse and have motives no different than anyone else often enough) but from the rose tinted glasses their culture is painted with by ultra left media / university type apologists.

Ironically they try so hard to be politically correct that they actually stereotype all natives as being great stewards of the land. They also often ignore the fact that Natives are various different groups themselves.

I remember one tour guide once telling us how great native culture was in the the men would hunt and the women would take care of the village and pick wild onions. After rolling my eyes someone else finally said, "Isn't that what we call sexism and gender roles in western society now?" The tour guide did not like that (she was a white university girl).

In the end I would not be surprised if the percentage of true environmentalists within native groups is not that different from society in general, especially around the coast of BC.

[osirisboy]

Agree 100% metro-one.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Am very familiar with the Tsawwassen FN as I grew up in Tsawwassen. They had to endure the then BC Dept. of Highways punching through Hwy 17 and the causeway through their reserve back in the late 1950's, which resulted in the demolishing of their longhouse, church, and other residential structures without any compensation.

They lived in third world conditions into the 1980's with dilapidated housing, rusting old cars on stilts in front, etc. As a matter of fact, the NW corner of Hwy 17/52nd Street was the locale of a dilapidated old house with an outhouse in the back. Knew the FN family that resided in same. In the photo above, that area is a portion of the Tsawwassen Mills parking lot.

Later, the TFN engaged in some economic development including constructing a campground/RV park at the SW portion of the Hwy 17 causeway entrance in the early 1980's. And then leasing land for Splashdown Waterpark.

In the mid-1980's, a portion of lands up on English Bluff remained as part of the TFN reserve. Back in the mid-1950's, the TFN sold a large abutting parcel on English Bluff to a developer (when FNs could still sell reserve lands). The remaining TFN lands were developed into a high-end SFD residential subdivision (Stahaken) into the 1990's on 99-year lot leases.

Into the 1990's, the TFN developed a condominium project (Tsatsu Shores) below English Bluff on Tsawwassen Beach (had a hell of a time as Delta would not grant water/waste-water connections to same).

Chief Kim Baird successfully negotiated their new treaty and yes the lands added were mostly Class 1 ALR lands. But what are they going to do with it? Farm it? Like everyone else they want highest and best use.

So they are on their way to developing retail commercial, residential, and industrial on most of their treaty lands. Can't blame 'em as they want economic development and a higher standard of living like everyone else.

The TFN has come a long way from living in third world impoverishment to a first world standard of living including housing, employment, etc. Kudos to them.

No different than the Westbank FN in West Kelowna developing their lands into residential (~5,000 non-FN reside on same) and retail/commercial, for example.

Yep didn't mean it as a criticism of FN people in any way, accomplishing anything under those conditions is impressive.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Yep didn't mean it as a criticism of FN people in any way, accomplishing anything under those conditions is impressive.

I know. My apologies. I should have prefaced my previous comment to your post as "I agree". I just wanted to flesh-out and provide some personal perspective to the TFN.

[paradigm4]

Despite all those who thought this mall would be a big flop, it was anything but this morning. I checked it out and was thoroughly impressed with the mixture of stores, the layout of the mall, and the incorporation of aboriginal art. The mall feels very modern and is quite large - it took about 30 minutes to just walk briskly around the entire two corridors.

I parked in the southern lot which seemed about 80-90% full mid-day. There were a bunch of opening day sales and tons of people lined up. Most of the stores were open and the only glitch I saw was the GNC's machines were broken so they only accepted cash.

Bass Pro Shops will be a big destination, as will Saks. I was also impressed with the design and magnitude of the food court/Great Hall.

That said, many of the stores were identical to those I visited earlier at McArthur Glen and there's not really a big draw to the mall, so it will be interesting to see if the demand is sustained over time.

But it's far from the spectacular failure everybody here predicted.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

But it's far from the spectacular failure everybody here predicted.

it takes more then 1 day for something to be successful, just like it takes more then 1 day for something to be a failure. you need a regular day to determine if it is successful, not a holiday/opening day/other peak day.

also not everybody said it would fail.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Tsawwassen commons has stuff open?? I didn't think that was opening until December

the site lists what will open later, only thing i remember seeing were bath & body works will open in december 2016 and starbucks will open in spring 2017 sometime

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Tsawwassen commons has stuff open?? I didn't think that was opening until December

Originally Posted by SpongeG

the site lists what will open later, only thing i remember seeing were bath & body works will open in december 2016 and starbucks will open in spring 2017 sometime

He was referring to Tsawwassen Commons.. the other 'mall' behind Mills with Walmart, Canadian Tire, etc. Nothing is open in Commons yet. Those cars are probably construction crew.

Ron.

[Steveston]

By no means was I suggesting that the TFN not develop their lands.

My point is that the nature and form of development is, to me, a disappointment.

Many years ago, I worked for a consulting firm that completed a comprehensive study on the feasibility of a hotel on their lands that would employ many band members. This has become a successful, environmentally and economically sustainable project that does not involve paving hundreds of acres of land.

I haven't seen the feasibility studies for Tsawwassen Mills, but I have a hard time believing that what we are seeing there today is the highest and best use for that land, that is also in keeping with TFN's principles of sustainability and stewardship.

[Stingray2004]

Originally Posted by Steveston

Many years ago, I worked for a consulting firm that completed a comprehensive study on the feasibility of a hotel on their lands that would employ many band members. This has become a successful, environmentally and economically sustainable project that does not involve paving hundreds of acres of land.

Firstly, the Coast Tsawwassen Inn is already extant just a relative skip, hop, and jump in Tsawwassen proper. I have never seen a "No Vacancy" sign on the place over the past couple of decades. I suggest that that establishment "mops up" any demand for hotel rooms in the entire area.

In any event, the TFN lands in the locale of Tsawwassen Mills are not ideally suited for a hotel IMHO. Lands more suitable for same would be the TFN lands across Hwy 17 on the Tsawwassen Beach waterfront. The available land is certainly there adjacent to Tsatsu Shores.

And I'm sure that if a developer comes along and offers to purchase a site thereto on a 99-year lease, builds it and flags it with a hotel chain that the TFN would be more than happy. Again, I just don't see the business case for same.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by paradigm4

Despite all those who thought this mall would be a big flop, it was anything but this morning. I checked it out and was thoroughly impressed with the mixture of stores, the layout of the mall, and the incorporation of aboriginal art. The mall feels very modern and is quite large - it took about 30 minutes to just walk briskly around the entire two corridors.

I parked in the southern lot which seemed about 80-90% full mid-day. There were a bunch of opening day sales and tons of people lined up. Most of the stores were open and the only glitch I saw was the GNC's machines were broken so they only accepted cash.

Bass Pro Shops will be a big destination, as will Saks. I was also impressed with the design and magnitude of the food court/Great Hall.

That said, many of the stores were identical to those I visited earlier at McArthur Glen and there's not really a big draw to the mall, so it will be interesting to see if the demand is sustained over time.

But it's far from the spectacular failure everybody here predicted.

And Macarthur Glenn was a zoo the first couple weeks, now go check out how much empty parking lot there is.

BTW, was it mentioned in this thread that Bass is buying Cabelas for a cool $5.5 billion.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...e-bought-by-bass-pro-in-5-5-billion-deal

[SpongeG]

i went to the mall today, traffic wasn't too bad at all, inside was pretty busy, judging by shopping bags most people were walking around without any, the most bags i saw were from michael kors, it was also the only one with a line to get in.

off saks was really good, they had a few $2000+ pursesfrom prada, dolce & gabana. lots of people browsing, good selection of stock.

harry rosen was decent, pretty expensive still.

bass pro was kinda neat and quite busy.

seemed like a lot of weird stores that might be spot fillers as they looked like spaces that were not intended to be long term use. a loy of the stores looked really small like lululemon.

I don't see any reason to go there more than a couple times a year.

i also read that the tswwassen band keeps the taxes collected, status card holders have to pay the taxes, unlike some other places like park royal south where you do't.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i also read that the tswwassen band keeps the taxes collected, status card holders have to pay the taxes, unlike some other places like park royal south where you do't.

Bass Pro has a large sign at the checkouts 'For tax exempt purchases proceed to Customer Service'

Ron.

[osirisboy]

I was also there yesterday. Only ended up seeing half of the mall as my arms were full of bags and decided to return to my car lol. May go back today. It was extremely busy but didn't experience any problems driving in and out. As someone who lives in white rock that will be my go to mall. Better than willow brook.

I also saw some stores that looked tempoary such as the canucks team store. I'm guessing they didn't have time to get started on their store but wanted to be open for the grand opening?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

I was also there yesterday. Only ended up seeing half of the mall as my arms were full of bags and decided to return to my car lol. May go back today. It was extremely busy but didn't experience any problems driving in and out. As someone who lives in white rock that will be my go to mall. Better than willow brook.

I also saw some stores that looked tempoary such as the canucks team store. I'm guessing they didn't have time to get started on their store but wanted to be open for the grand opening?

You too are a mall rat, eh?