Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 388

Dalreg · #**7741** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 2:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Re MOSAIC

A thing of beauty forever - well done.

However, is there any particular reason why they wouldn't go with grass?

Same reason all the major stadiums in Western Canada seem to have gone away with real grass, climate.....

elly63 · #**7742** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 3:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Same reason all the major stadiums in Western Canada seem to have gone away with real grass, climate.....

It's not climate, it's usage. Edmonton maintained a very good turf surface for years but they had to baby it and that costs time and money something which several NFL northern fields have an abundance of.

craner · #**7743** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 4:06 AM**

Grass feild becomes brutal in Oct. & Nov. though.
Turf is the way to go (and don't give the crap about natural grass being called turf

)

elly63 · #**7744** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 4:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by craner

Turf is the way to go (and don't give the crap about natural grass being called turf

)

It is what it is if you want to use the word correctly.

Dalreg · #**7745** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 4:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

It's not climate, it's usage. Edmonton maintained a very good turf surface for years but they had to baby it and that costs time and money something which several NFL northern fields have an abundance of.

Climate plays a big part in it. How many Northern Stadiums around the World have grass fields?

elly63 · #**7746** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 4:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Climate plays a big part in it. How many Northern Stadiums around the World have grass fields?

Well if you count soccer most of them are turf and they play winter schedules. Some leagues have a split schedule. As you know most soccer leagues scorn artificial fields but it is slowly changing, there are some artificial turf fields but natural turf is the plurality.

For turf fields in the NFL there is Green Bay, Denver, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and I've left out two or three. Now I consider as north (re the NFL) anywhere that it is going to be cold and snowing during the last few months of the season.

Dalreg · #**7747** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 7:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Well if you count soccer most of them are turf and they play winter schedules. Some leagues have a split schedule. As you know most soccer leagues scorn artificial fields but it is slowly changing, there are some artificial turf fields but natural turf is the plurality.

For turf fields in the NFL there is Green Bay, Denver, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and I've left out two or three. Now I consider as north (re the NFL) anywhere that it is going to be cold and snowing during the last few months of the season.

How many of those fields have you been on in October, November, December? I personally haven't been on them, but I think they are just great looking on tv. Especially when they are painted green to appear like real grass.

elly63 · #**7748** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 7:17 AM**

I'm not sure what your point is, the original poster wondered why NMS didn't have grass. The answer was expense and community usage. The NFL teams can afford to do it, most CFL stadiums are community owned and cannot.

Nathan · #**7749** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 7:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

I'm not sure what your point is, the original poster wondered why NMS didn't have grass. The answer was expense and community usage. The NFL teams can afford to do it, most CFL stadiums are community owned and cannot.

That and regardless of expense, it would pretty much be rock-hard come November in Regina... Saskatchewan winters are fairly extreme even compared to "Northern" NFL teams. The 2013 Grey Cup had fantastic weather... but the week leading up featured temps in the -30s (some Ticat players got a bit of frostbite in the practices). The old Mosaic's turf is so terrible that this wouldn't necessarily make a difference, but in the new stadium, turf vs natural grass would definitely have a different feel in these conditions (given that the underway isn't asphalt).

As far as the turf vs natural grass discussion goes in the context of Canadian English (esp. on the prairies)... it's pretty much in line with the field vs pitch and football vs soccer argument. So yes... it would sound "off" in a colloquial way to many Canadians.

elly63 · #**7750** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 7:48 AM**

I don't want to say this without the stats to back me up but I think most soccer surfaces in cold climes have undersoil heating and are covered. Many use grow lamps.

I believe the Russian Premier League which would probably be the most similar to Canada is not a full winter league but has a split schedule, the league takes a three-month winter break from mid-December until mid-March. That can still get pretty cold.

England has a full winter schedule (August to May), not quite -30 but it can get cold there as well. Here's some prep for Wembley that shows some of what goes into the maintenance of turf (and the expense).

• Video Link

Dalreg · #**7751** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 1:03 PM**

You stated that climate is not the reason, I am saying it is part of the reason. Wonder why they have in ground heating? Hmmm? Perhaps because the climate doesn't allow for grass to grow all year long?

Hmmm? Climate must be part of the reason why they don't use it across Canada on a consistent basis perhaps?

Biff · #**7752** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 2:01 PM**

Lambeau Field also has a sub-soil heating system.

esquire · #**7753** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 3:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalreg

You stated that climate is not the reason, I am saying it is part of the reason. Wonder why they have in ground heating? Hmmm? Perhaps because the climate doesn't allow for grass to grow all year long?

Hmmm? Climate must be part of the reason why they don't use it across Canada on a consistent basis perhaps?

Not that I care much one way or another... newer types of artificial turf seem A-OK for football, but how did they make it work with natural turf in Edmonton for all those years?

I think it really boils down to exclusivity of use, and the reality is that all CFL fields are pretty busy community venues with plenty of amateur use.

Even in places like Green Bay it's probably a lot easier to keep the grass in good shape than in Winnipeg/Regina/Edmonton which are at least one climate zone apart.

elly63 · #**7754** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 4:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalreg

You stated that climate is not the reason, I am saying it is part of the reason. Wonder why they have in ground heating? Hmmm? Perhaps because the climate doesn't allow for grass to grow all year long?

Hmmm? Climate must be part of the reason why they don't use it across Canada on a consistent basis perhaps?

I think we are at cross purposes. I am saying it is economical and community based. Of course we could do it and spend the money if we wanted but most stadiums would also have to be used by the community as well and I don't think the big soccer or NFL stadiums do that.

elly63 · #**7755** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 4:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I think it really boils down to exclusivity of use, and the reality is that all CFL fields are pretty busy community venues with plenty of amateur use.

That's the point I've been trying to get across.

elly63 · #**7756** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 4:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Even in places like Green Bay it's probably a lot easier to keep the grass in good shape than in Winnipeg/Regina/Edmonton which are at least one climate zone apart.

It gets pretty cold in Green Bay and remember its season goes almost two months beyond the CFL.

Riise · #**7757** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalreg

How many of those fields have you been on in October, November, December? I personally haven't been on them, but I think they are just great looking on tv. Especially when they are painted green to appear like real grass.

Technically, you only asked how many stadiums in Northern locations have natural grass not how many of these pitches looked pristine in winter.

In addition to climate, soil type has an impact on the maintenance of natural grass playing surfaces. The ground in Calgary is rock hard and even the best natural grass fields are pretty unforgiving. Although I prefer real grass, I wouldn't demand a natural grass playing surface in Calgary unless we got a professional footy team or were holding a major event (e.g. World Cup or International Champions Cup).

esquire · #**7758** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 6:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

That's the point I've been trying to get across.

As I recall, when the Eskimos had a grass surface they had a reputation for jealously guarding it and preventing other users from playing on it. Their grass was usually still decent come playoff time, so perhaps that's the only real trick to keeping it playable in the winter... minimizing use.

elly63 · #**7759** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise

Technically, you only asked how many stadiums in Northern locations have natural grass not how many of these pitches looked pristine in winter.

You'd know this (I think/hope). Do the three Scandinavian leagues have a split season like Russia? There are some artificial turf fields there (Scandinavia) but most are turf for the premier league clubs correct? I would think playing conditions can get pretty difficult at the beginning and end of the seasons.

elly63 · #**7760** Posted **Oct 5, 2016, 6:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

As I recall, when the Eskimos had a grass surface they had a reputation for jealously guarding it and preventing other users from playing on it. Their grass was usually still decent come playoff time, so perhaps that's the only real trick to keeping it playable in the winter... minimizing use.

Yes to both points. And you can't make money (or not lose it) by minimizing use and not renting it out