Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dothediu

Translink confirmed they will be using third platform at Lougheed for Eastbound Millenium line trains terminating at Lougheed starting Oct 22. Expo Line will use existing platforms.

https://twitter.com/TransLink/status/777923425335513089
Starts around 12:00

Thanks!

[idunno]

Yeah it's pretty hilarious the reaction on social media. People are instantly angry - and my guess is that they often don't even understand the change/how few people it really affects!

[Gordon]

Any idea when the new real-time arrival signs will be installed at the saations?

[Express691]

Originally Posted by idunno

Yeah it's pretty hilarious the reaction on social media. People are instantly angry - and my guess is that they often don't even understand the change/how few people it really affects!

They're just angry because its translink, tbh

[deasine]

I'm a bit surprised the change is occurring ahead of the Evergreen Line opening but I think a lot of thought has been put into this as a way of managing public change in a phased approach during opening.

I wonder if the trains are really "short-turning" at Lougheed though. TransLink may as part of regular testing (especially when they begin stepping up testing phasing) begin running trains straight from VCC to Larfarge Lake but having staff clear the trains at Lougheed. This may enable a seamless transition and even shorter testing and commissioning phase.

[dharper]

What is the current ratio of Expo/Millennium trains on the Expo line now?
Does anyone know what the ratio of Surrey/Production trains on the Expo line will be post Oct 22?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by dharper

What is the current ratio of Expo/Millennium trains on the Expo line now?

Currently 2:1 (every third train is a Millennium line train)

Does anyone know what the ratio of Surrey/Production trains on the Expo line will be post Oct 22?

TransLink's page says "one train will go to King George, the other to Production Way". I assume this means that they'll be evenly split, but it's pretty vague.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by dharper

What is the current ratio of Expo/Millennium trains on the Expo line now?
Does anyone know what the ratio of Surrey/Production trains on the Expo line will be post Oct 22?

During peak periods, the ratio is 2:1 (King George : VCC-Clark). Off-peak hours it's a bit more flexible, but generally keeps that same ratio with more spacing between trains.

After the changes, my understanding is that the peak ratio will remain 2:1 (King George : Production Way).

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by dharper

What is the current ratio of Expo/Millennium trains on the Expo line now?
Does anyone know what the ratio of Surrey/Production trains on the Expo line will be post Oct 22?

Generally speaking two trains go to King George for every one that goes to the Millennium Line. I expect the ratio will remain the same after the route changes in October.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

The Millennium trains that short-turn at Lougheed can take the switch east of Platform 3 and 'wrong rail' just past the last switch of the Lougheed interlocking.

While its resting on the Evergreen Inbound track waiting to start the westbound trip, the Expo trains can still get by it and land at Platform 2.

After the WB Expo train clears Platform 2, the WB Millennium train can land at Platform 2 to start its trip.

Since there is a minimum of 7 minutes before the next WB "evergreen extension" Millennium trains arrives at Lougheed, there should be plenty of time for the short-turn train to wait on the Evergreen Inbound track to start its WB trip.

Certainly faster than dead-heading all the way to Burquitlam and disappoint those waiting passengers by taking the Burquitlam switches and returning back to Lougheed empty.

It was pointed out to me that the Millennium trains terminating at Lougheed can use Platform 1 (just like the EB Expo trains), then take the switch east of Platform 1 to "wrong rail" to the Millennium Inbound tracks east of the interlocking, where it can rest before starting the next WB trip.

That way, passengers at Platform 3 won't get their hopes up that the arriving Millennium train is for Douglas/Lafarge - only to be crushed when it turns out to be terminating at Lougheed.

Perhaps Translink will do this for a few weeks between the "route changes" in October and Evergreen opening.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Very slightly, yes.

As a result of the changes, the wait times for Expo Line trains will increase by about 10 seconds (which should be almost unnoticeable to passengers). The Expo Line will now run exclusively the longer 4-car Mark II/III trains, and 6-car Mark I trains.

Yeah that should be fine - so the new freqs will most likely be exactly 120s or 2 minutes (currently 108s), and consistently longer trains should definitely make up for it. I actually like that as it would allow for a consistent schedule each hour (i.e. trains at 02, 04, 08, 10, etc from King George every hour) and I can pick my exact departure time.

Earlier, nname had uncovered some draft e that showed Expo Line frequency going down to 2 minutes and 20 (I think) seconds during peak, which also showed off-peak freqs going down to 7.5 mins per branch, but those have since been deleted. This is much better, and manageable, as long as there aren't changes to off-peak frequencies (if anything they will go back up anyway with the new expansion plan set for 2017).

[nname]

I just checked the online schedule for Oct 27, and its still the same -
Expo Line would have 9 trains every 20min at peak - 6 go to Surrey and 3 to Production... Off-peak is still every 7.5min each branch.

Just choose a date after Oct 22, and enter 991 for Millennium Line or 992 for Expo Line.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

It was pointed out to me that the Millennium trains terminating at Lougheed can use Platform 1 (just like the EB Expo trains), then take the switch east of Platform 1 to "wrong rail" to the Millennium Inbound tracks east of the interlocking, where it can rest before starting the next WB trip.

That way, passengers at Platform 3 won't get their hopes up that the arriving Millennium train is for Douglas/Lafarge - only to be crushed when it turns out to be terminating at Lougheed.

Perhaps Translink will do this for a few weeks between the "route changes" in October and Evergreen opening.

They said during their press thing today that trains will be using the 3rd platform at Lougheed starting October 22nd.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by dpogue

The Expo Line will now run exclusively the longer 4-car Mark II/III trains, and 6-car Mark I trains.

Every train? Any idea what % capacity increase/decrease this is? I'm excited to potentially not have to grind other people on the way to work.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Spork

Every train? Any idea what % capacity increase/decrease this is? I'm excited to potentially not have to grind other people on the way to work.

Seems like an excellent way of making friends.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by dpogue

The Expo Line will now run exclusively the longer 4-car Mark II/III trains, and 6-car Mark I trains.

This is a benefit of reducing the distance that "Expo Line" trains have to run along the Millennium Line - it frees up car pairs for use in longer trainsets on the busiest portion of line, while shorter trainsets can be confined to what will doubtless be the less busy Millennium / Evergreen extension..

[Express691]

So can I get a summary of what trains/how long the trains will be on each branch plz and thank you

The only thing I know is having mark 3s on Expo line exclusively. Not shre about mark 2s and 3s.

[WarrenC12]

^^^^^

I'd love the same info.

Will we still have 4-car Mark I trains when all of the Mark 3s are in service?

What about when the 10 year plan Phase 1 trains are in service?

[dothediu]

Originally Posted by Express691

So can I get a summary of what trains/how long the trains will be on each branch plz and thank you

The only thing I know is having mark 3s on Expo line exclusively. Not shre about mark 2s and 3s.

From Oct 22,
Expo Line will be 6 car Mark 1, 4 car mark 2&3. (this is confirmed)
Also some 2 car Mark 2s in rush hour mornings from Waterfront and Broadway.

Millenium Line will likely be 4 car Mark 1, 2 car Mark 2 (this has not been not confirmed). I don't see them running 4 car Mark 2s or Mark 3s on the Millenium line due to lower ridership.

After Evergreen line starts, they might run 4 car Mark 2s?

[TransitFreak]

I've done some rudimentary math, here's one possible solution:

144 MKI's + 60 MKII's + 48 MKII.5's + 28 MKIII's = 280 train cars in inventory

Expo Line Waterfront to KG or Waterfront to Production Way is about the same at 40 mins. Headways of 2 mins at the trunk, means 20 trains in each direction. 7 4-car MKIII's, 12 4-car MKII.5's, 21 6-car MKI's = 40 trainsets or 202 train cars

VCC-Clark to Lafarge Lake is about 39 mins. Headways of 3.5 mins at the trunk, means 12 cars in each direction. If there are short turn trains to Lougheed, this could be serviced with 12 2-car MKII's = 12 trainsets or 24 train cars. The full route could be service with 3 4-car MKI's and 9 4-car MKII's - total of 12 trainsets or 48 train cars. Total line would have 24 trainsets or 72 train cars.

This would leave by my count 3 pairs of MKI's in the yard, or 2% reserve, which is not much. This would be at full deployment for rush hour. During non-rush hours, the trains pulled out of service would be extra Expo line trains to KG to get back to a 1 to 1.

I'm probably duplicating trains at the terminus station, but figured the terminus station would both have trains at the platforms, one for loading, and one for unloading. Again, just a real rough thoughts on possible train mix.

I've also dismissed the notion of 2 car trains from Broadway to Waterfront once Evergreen is open, as I thought that would be abandoned and addressed with the longer trainsets. I think that was mentioned before somewhere way back when.