Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Yes, but turning trains around at Lougheed without using that 3rd platform is going to be a pain.

A few people have suggested that they'll actually run the trains all the way to Lafarge and back (with an STA on-board and no passengers) as part of the final testing & commissioning phases.

To get a reasonable simulation of the Evergreen Extension, the Millennium trains from VCC arriving at Lougheed Platform 3 can be cleared of passengers, then dead-head to Burquitlam as the 'terminal'.

When the train needs to get back to scheduled Millennium service, it takes the Burqitlam switches and arrives at Lougheed Platform 2 (interlining with Expo trains to Production)


Once the tunnel is ready for trains, these dead-head trains from Lougheed can be turned at Port Moody, Ioco, Coq Central or Douglas. Or even Falcon Yard. Doesn't matter where they are turned if there are no passengers on board.

Translink can also use these dead-head trains to practice unusual setups like single-tracking through the tunnels to confirm their procedures and how these changes impact the schedule. Lots of thing that work 'by the book' don't in the real-world.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by nname

From the schedule, there are two type of trains -
Millennium Line to Lougheed
Millennium Line to Lafarge Lake

During peak hours and late night, every train will go to Lafarge; however, mid-day and evening, every second train will terminate at Lougheed. The last train of the day will also go as far as Lougheed only.

This is what the headway that is currently in Translink's schedule:

Peak:
VCC ..3⅓.. Lougheed ..3⅓.. Lafarge
Waterfront ..2 2/9.. Columbia ..6⅔.. Production ( or ..4 4/9.. King George)

Midday/Evening:
VCC ..3¾.. Lougheed ..7½.. Lafarge
Waterfront ..3¾.. Columbia ..7½.. Production / King George

Late night:
VCC ..8.. Lougheed ..8.. Lafarge
Waterfront ..4.. Columbia ..8.. Production / King George

...

This appears to show that the interlining of Expo trains (Columbia to Production) with Millennium trains (Lougheed to Production) is what sets the train headway for the rest of the system.

[Gordon]

How will Pm peak headways change on what is the current combined expo\Millennium line change?

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The real change from a passenger perspective will be the up and down transfer required
- and central to that is the fact that trains coming from VCC-Clarke will stop at the new 3rd platform.

For a "proper" test, Millennium trains from VCC-Clarke should stop at the new 3rd platform, then continue up North Road to the switch,
then come back in to the north side of the old centre platform (Platform 2?).

The Expo Line trains from Braid (Waterfront) will also stop at Platform 2.

That way, they are testing the interlining of trains at Platform 2.

....or maybe they'll use the switch circled in orange below to reverse the trains.


Modified version of Lougheed Operations diagram showing revised movements from Partnerships BC website.

The problem with that switch is that it would cause the train to stop over top of several other switches (not pictured) to reverse, and block trains from Braid. I'm fairly sure the computer system does not allow trains to stop while blocking a switch.

The full routing once the Evergreen extension opens probably looks like this:

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dpogue

The problem with that switch is that it would cause the train to stop over top of several other switches (not pictured) to reverse, and block trains from Braid. I'm fairly sure the computer system does not allow trains to stop while blocking a switch.

Ah, good point.
and as mentioned, the better test would be to do the turnback near Burquitlam.

(PS - I just realized that I erased the other switch you mentioned from my revised diagram when I erased the blue line that showed the turnback at Lougheed (Platform 1)).

[NetMapel]

I see now what the lines will look like in the future when Evergreen extension comes online. I'm not familiar with the Lougheed and Production-Way area much, but I would think it'd make sense to concentrate bus terminals and so on at Lougheed station so Expo line will just stop there instead of having to go an extra station past Lougheed. Is it feasible to have the SFU buses and whatnot concentrated to the Lougheed station instead and make that into a bigger transportation hub? It will look visually cleaner on the map in my mind.

If this is the way things are going, I say Millennium line will eventually be extended beyond VCC-Clark, connect with Canada Line's Broadway Cityhall station. Maybe Surrey gets its own extension, so eventually Expo line will be just from Waterfront to Lougheed station. Surrey will become its own line with transfer point at Columbia station. This will be the far future though when Surrey does get extended.

Millennium Line: UBC to end of Evergreen extension
Expo Line: Waterfront to Lougheed
Surrey Line: Columbia to wherever Surrey line extends to

Anyways, just my two cents.

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

I see now what the lines will look like in the future when Evergreen extension comes online. I'm not familiar with the Lougheed and Production-Way area much, but I would think it'd make sense to concentrate bus terminals and so on at Lougheed station so Expo line will just stop there instead of having to go an extra station past Lougheed. Is it feasible to have the SFU buses and whatnot concentrated to the Lougheed station instead and make that into a bigger transportation hub? It will look visually cleaner on the map in my mind.

If this is the way things are going, I say Millennium line will eventually be extended beyond VCC-Clark, connect with Canada Line's Broadway Cityhall station. Maybe Surrey gets its own extension, so eventually Expo line will be just from Waterfront to Lougheed station. Surrey will become its own line with transfer point at Columbia station. This will be the far future though when Surrey does get extended.

Millennium Line: UBC to end of Evergreen extension
Expo Line: Waterfront to Lougheed
Surrey Line: Columbia to wherever Surrey line extends to

Anyways, just my two cents.

Surrey is by far the busier branch than Lougheed (though the Evergreen Line, by enhancing connectivity at Lougheed, may increase ridership in the long run somewhat). wouldn't it make sense to through run to Surrey?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

I see now what the lines will look like in the future when Evergreen extension comes online. I'm not familiar with the Lougheed and Production-Way area much, but I would think it'd make sense to concentrate bus terminals and so on at Lougheed station so Expo line will just stop there instead of having to go an extra station past Lougheed. Is it feasible to have the SFU buses and whatnot concentrated to the Lougheed station instead and make that into a bigger transportation hub? It will look visually cleaner on the map in my mind.

It might look visually cleaner on a map but it doesn't make practical sense. Why would you unnecessarily extend a busy almost B-Line bus route? It makes more sense to leave the 145 where it is while we wait for the gondola to finally happen, which would also be from Production Way.

Originally Posted by Bdawe

Surrey is by far the busier branch than Lougheed (though the Evergreen Line, by enhancing connectivity at Lougheed, may increase ridership in the long run somewhat). wouldn't it make sense to through run to Surrey?

I've ridden both Expo and Millennium lines during rush hour - Expo becomes sardine city vs Millennium barely had anyone standing. Plus yes Columbia to Surrey is busier than Columbia to Lougheed.


These are two times where TransLink made the right decision.

[swimmer_spe]

If they could ever build a Skytrain line up to SFU then an Expo Extension from Lougheed would make sense. Then there is no interlining.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by dpogue

The problem with that switch is that it would cause the train to stop over top of several other switches (not pictured) to reverse, and block trains from Braid. I'm fairly sure the computer system does not allow trains to stop while blocking a switch.

The full routing once the Evergreen extension opens probably looks like this:

The Millennium trains that short-turn at Lougheed can take the switch east of Platform 3 and 'wrong rail' just past the last switch of the Lougheed interlocking.

While its resting on the Evergreen Inbound track waiting to start the westbound trip, the Expo trains can still get by it and land at Platform 2.

After the WB Expo train clears Platform 2, the WB Millennium train can land at Platform 2 to start its trip.

Since there is a minimum of 7 minutes before the next WB "evergreen extension" Millennium trains arrives at Lougheed, there should be plenty of time for the short-turn train to wait on the Evergreen Inbound track to start its WB trip.

Certainly faster than dead-heading all the way to Burquitlam and disappoint those waiting passengers by taking the Burquitlam switches and returning back to Lougheed empty.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

I would think it'd make sense to concentrate bus terminals and so on at Lougheed station so Expo line will just stop there instead of having to go an extra station past Lougheed.

It makes sense whatsoever to have those buses run over the same route portion that the Skytrain would take. It's cheaper to operate the Skytrain for that distance and faster for the riders to ride it.

[dothediu]

Translink confirmed they will be using third platform at Lougheed for Eastbound Millenium line trains terminating at Lougheed starting Oct 22. Expo Line will use existing platforms.

https://twitter.com/TransLink/status/777923425335513089
Starts around 12:00

[Gordon]

will the expansion work a Broadway \ commercial stn be complete when the Evergreen extension opens i n Decmeber?

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by Gordon

will the expansion work a Broadway \ commercial stn be complete when the Evergreen extension opens i n Decmeber?

No, that's not scheduled to wrap up until mid-late 2017 (and we know how well these projects stick to schedule)

[CanSpice]

When did the news about how the Expo and Millennium lines were being "rerouted" come out? I have people in my Twitter feed all pissed off because they didn't know it was coming, but I'm pretty sure I've known about it for a couple of months.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

When did the news about how the Expo and Millennium lines were being "rerouted" come out? I have people in my Twitter feed all pissed off because they didn't know it was coming, but I'm pretty sure I've known about it for a couple of months.

Officially, today.

http://www.translink.ca/skytrainchanges just went live, and there was a press conference about the changes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ehq66iKF6U

[s211]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I have people in my Twitter feed all pissed off because they didn't know it was coming

Some people's kids....

(not directed at you)

[nname]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

When did the news about how the Expo and Millennium lines were being "rerouted" come out?

It was already known here since 2014

(refer to page 277-278 of this thread)

[Gordon]

will the expo Line headways between waterfront & Columbia change on OCt 22nd

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by Gordon

will the expo Line headways between waterfront & Columbia change on OCt 22nd

Very slightly, yes.

As a result of the changes, the wait times for Expo Line trains will increase by about 10 seconds (which should be almost unnoticeable to passengers). The Expo Line will now run exclusively the longer 4-car Mark II/III trains, and 6-car Mark I trains.