Quote:
Originally Posted by mukmuk64
You build a new bridge that's larger than the current Massey Tunnel but that isn't 10 lanes wide and the largest bridge in BC.
I'd prefer 6 lanes with 2 transit only lanes for BRT that could potentially be shifted to rapid transit down the road. (I'd actually be quite happy with 4 lanes and 2 transit only but I don't think that's politically viable)
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Do you mean six lanes total, or six lanes plus two for BRT? There's a big difference. In case you've forgotten, 6 - 2 = 4. Four lanes is what we have right now, and definitely isn't enough; two lanes will be a nightmare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mukmuk64
The problem here is that tolling and improved public transit change behaviour and this bridge is clearly not compensating in any way for that fact. It assumes traffic volumes will be massive and so it is accordingly massive.
We saw that with the introduction of the Canada Line Oak St bridge volumes dropped. We saw that traffic shifted from the Port Mann due to tolls.
What will happen when this bridge is tolled? The designers of this bridge seem to be assuming that nothing will change. With better transit connections and road pricing you'd see less demand from cars, and so a bridge so large is not necessary.
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And where and when will such funding for rapid transit to Delta come from? We haven't even gotten funding for Skytrain to Broadway and Langley - much less Hastings, Willingdon, North Shore, 41st or anything on the wishlist. Why would anybody intentionally retard the bridge's size in the hope that rapid transit will change commutes a few decades down the road? We've got gridlock right
now, and that's bad for everybody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mukmuk64
This is the solution to the port traffic problem as well. Getting basic every day commuters into transit alternatives (or if they decide to live closer to work) frees up road space for commercial activities that require road space.
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Reading comprehension is your friend. Since you seem to have missed it the first time, I'll say it again:
1) The buses are stuck in gridlock at the GMT as well. What are the passengers going to do, take the bus? A large bridge is in transit users' best interests as well; more lanes = faster trip.
2) The GMT doesn't serve
just Metro Vancouver. It's also the main link from Victoria and the United States to mainland BC. Even if we build a Skytrain to Vancouver Island AND Seattle, people will always need to drive from Delta to Vancouver proper and beyond.
3) Those drivers include freight truckers - the people responsible for keeping much of the global economy going. Spoiler alert: even without the cars, they don't have enough space either. Surely you don't expect them to hop on the bus with 20-30k kilos of goods?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mukmuk64
The problem with the additional lane of traffic and of "future proofing" the bridge is that it incentivizes driving a car. This is the foundation of Induced Demand. Suddenly there's all this room and it's quick and easy to drive. Now driving is even easier that public transit. More people decide to live further away and decide to drive and more traffic is created. A decade or so down the road the bridge is filling up and now the roads have to be expanded again! The cycle continues and continues.
Spending less money on the bridge and diverting that money to public transit alternatives is the only way to break that cycle of car reliance.
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We need both road space AND transit - the latter, by the way, often depends on the former. Induced Demand (in relation to traffic) is a response to America's "build, baby, build" attitude to highways; what the experts are calling for is to have some road space, some transit, some bike lanes/etc, so that you're always ahead of congestion and simultaneously bringing it down.
Unfortunately, many people have misinterpreted this to mean that less roads = less traffic. Which is a load of bovine excrement, because the traffic still exists, but now without any infrastructure to support it.
You need to replace the roads with rapid transit, or with other roads. Since rapid transit to/from Delta isn't going to be an option in your lifetime or mine - AND on top of that, we've got additional traffic from the States and the Tsawwassen - that means "other roads." Since new bridges only get built every half-century, and we're blowing several billion regardless, it'd be better to have extra lanes and not need them than the other way around.
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