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  #9801  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
the fares on the new Air Canada yvr DFW service is $657 canadian #200 more thatn flying out of seattle
Is that base fare only or after adding in all taxes and fees?
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  #9802  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 9:15 PM
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That's all in, taxes and fees.

Still cheaper than flying AA though, their flights seem to be consistently around $800.
     
     
  #9803  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
the fares on the new Air Canada yvr DFW service is $657 canadian #200 more thatn flying out of seattle
US Immigration fees, US Agriculture Inspection Fees, 9-11 fees, etc. Will all be lower or non-existent on a domestic flight. I would be surprised if SEA were not cheaper.

That said, these comparison are hard to make, because all these seats go up in price on a give flight as the aircraft fills up. Yield management makes it hard to compare other than of a specific day at a specific time.
     
     
  #9804  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 9:47 PM
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Vancitybuzz or the Hive or whatever we're calling it these days had a good write-up on the upcomming YVR expansion:

Some key points are:
  • they are recommending the centre option (no surprise)
  • the N/S taxiway is still in the plans but not needed yet
  • 3rd runway likely required by 2037
  • Canada Line station is having crowding issues so a 'Spanish Solution' platform may be needed
  • Templeton-Grant McConachie Way intersection will likely become an interchange
  • replacement of the two-lane Dinsmore Bridge between Sea Island and Richmond
Mainly stuff we already know from the engagement materials but synthesized in a more concise article.



http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-international-airport-expansion-masterplan
     
     
  #9805  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Vancitybuzz or the Hive or whatever we're calling it these days had a good write-up on the upcomming YVR expansion:

Some key points are:

they are recommending the centre option (no surprise)
Sounds like this is THE option that has been selected. And forward we go!
     
     
  #9806  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 10:24 PM
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At a speech earlier in the year, given, I believe at the V.Board of Trade, Craig Richmond outlined the three options, and already at that time, this seemed the 'already decided-upon' option
     
     
  #9807  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
the fares on the new Air Canada yvr DFW service is $657 canadian #200 more thatn flying out of seattle
ITA matrix shows that in march, the non-stop AA return flight from YVR costs ~ $80 more than the AC flight.
     
     
  #9808  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Vancitybuzz or the Hive or whatever we're calling it these days had a good write-up on the upcomming YVR expansion:

Some key points are:
  • they are recommending the centre option (no surprise)
  • the N/S taxiway is still in the plans but not needed yet
  • 3rd runway likely required by 2037
  • Canada Line station is having crowding issues so a 'Spanish Solution' platform may be needed
  • Templeton-Grant McConachie Way intersection will likely become an interchange
  • replacement of the two-lane Dinsmore Bridge between Sea Island and Richmond
Mainly stuff we already know from the engagement materials but synthesized in a more concise article.


http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-international-airport-expansion-masterplan
Good scoop from Daily hive/kenneth chan! i think they changed some of the proposal details AFAIK from last year, though - is that a bridge/tunnel connecting the centre and east terminals? And across the parking lot? Regardless the official word will be arriving soon.

     
     
  #9809  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2016, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Hourglass View Post
But if this isn't really the case with YYC, and given the limited market size (as you point out), then I can't help but think the new international terminal seems like overkill: 2 million square feet of terminal space (doubling the size of the airport) and the addition of 24 international gates. I mean, I believe YVR only has around 34 international gates at present.

Maybe they're simply future proofing against long-term growth, but one can't help but wonder if YYC is also angling to try to grab some international transfer traffic?
In evaluating whether the new YYC terminal is overkill there is a cautionary tale for YVR as they expand into the details of central option expansion.

Arguably YYC gate utilization for the whole terminal is very impressive. I would compare YYC current gate utilization to that of YVR in the mid 90s. At YYC this summer there are no spare gates and some flights are negatively impacted by the gate capacity issues. For example; WestJet flagship flight YYC-LGW routinely has to arrive at the B concourse because Hainan, KLM, and Air Transat, and Condor are using the widebody gates over on A concourse. WS must then tow the 763 over to A concourse where it takes up to 737 size gates at the hammerhead. All summer long there have been various ground holds due to the arrival gate being occupied by the previous flight.

Looking at the current gate plan for YYC there are 18 international capable gates, however all but four gates have the capability for swing gate operations. Gates 11/12/13/14 swing between domestic and international. Gates 21/22/23/24 swing between domestic and transborder. Gates 31/33/35/37/39/40 swing between domestic/transborder/international. The high level of flexibility is utilized extensively by WS and to a lesser extent AC.

The new YYC international terminal obliterates this flexibility for the airlines as the only swing gate capability is between International and Transborder (the least likely combination). Consequently, YYC airport is going from 18 international/transborder gates to 24.

I would argue the new YYC international gate capacity should be set at 20-22 gates. In order to get to 24 gates, there has to be no widebody aircraft and significant use of small regional jet aircraft (even the new C-Series and E-Jets will have too big of a wing span for full capacity utilization). This situation is similar to EWR Terminal C, the international concourse has 18 gates but an effective capacity of 12-14 aircraft.

The big reason for YYC new terminal is to provide increased capacity on central processor functions like Checkin, Security, USCBP, retail, CBSA, Bag claim. I have gone through the current terminal about 4 times this summer, and everywhere passengers are tripping over each other and there is insufficient queue space. Just this last week LHR, FRA, and LGW arrived at nearly the same time only to have the last passengers off LGW queue for CBSA primary inspection line on the third floor corridor well over 50 meters to the CBSA hall. This level of congestion is usually reserved for SEA South terminal inhabited by DL.

Bringing this all back to YVR and the Airport's decision to expand using the central option; there are a number of lessons learned for YVR.

(1) Back over 10 years ago, YYC's initial "International Facilities Project" was an extension of the B concourse (similar to the extension of JFK Terminal 4 Concourse A whereby 20 gates were added onto the 10 gate concourse). Once YYC Airport identified the central processor functions as a capacity limiter, the first plan had to be scrapped and the current plan developed from scratch. Hopefully YVR does not have the same situation with their central expansion project.

(2) Similar to YYC (although not as bad) the central processor functions do face capacity constraints at peak times. Further, YVR is all ready at the forefront of automation and processing enhancements through APC machines at primary inspection, Nexus kiosks, Known Traveller lanes at security. Is there another great efficiency enhancement to alleviate the peak period capacity constraints at YVR International Terminal? IF the answer is no, then how will adding new gates not result in additional overcapacity situations?

(3) The YYC International terminal is the first Canadian terminal designed for high density configured aircraft. Back when YVR International Terminal was designed the 763 had 210 seats and the 747 had about 400-450. Airlines routinely filled their 744s to 60-70% capacity. Today the expectation is 270 seat 763 and triple the number of 77W with similar capacity to yesterday's 744. With high density seating becoming the norm, this will put YVR's central processor operations under further strain.

(4) One operational advantage of YVR is moderate success operating a second Asian departure bank in the night. This will further increase the YVR terminal efficiency. YYC has been unable to get a second profitable departure bank in any international market.
     
     
  #9810  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2016, 12:48 AM
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^ Great post! Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed post.
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  #9811  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2016, 12:56 AM
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Good analysis. WRT #1 was YYC's initial plan developed before 9/11? If so, central processing WRT CATSA/security would have been altered significantly, in YYC's defense.

#4 a late bank of intl departures from calgary? i haven't been to YYC for a long time, but how are noise issues for the surrounding neighbourhoods, esp with the new runway? A YVR-like late bank of intl departures may be a hard sell if it is.
     
     
  #9812  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2016, 1:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mezzanine View Post
Good analysis. WRT #1 was YYC's initial plan developed before 9/11? If so, central processing WRT CATSA/security would have been altered significantly, in YYC's defense.

#4 a late bank of intl departures from calgary? i haven't been to YYC for a long time, but how are noise issues for the surrounding neighbourhoods, esp with the new runway? A YVR-like late bank of intl departures may be a hard sell if it is.
Cage - Great analysis.

Traveling in and out of YXE quite a bit, on more than one occasion I have been on the midnight AC-Jazz departure out of YYC. They use a remote runway (never tried to figure it out on a map). But to get out their sometime it almost fells like your going to taxi all the way to YXE. Announcement is usually along the lines of "Sorry about the long taxi, it is to reduce noise." The early morning flight can be similar.

Vancouver also have the advantage that there are three international banks. The morning-noon bank to Asia. An afternoon bank to Europe and south pacific and then the late night to Asia. With some flights overlapping. That spreads things out quite a bit.

My one wish for YYC once the new expansion is done is they get rid of the silly limits on when your allowed to go through security. It makes it an annoying airport to use. Coming in from YYJ or YXE and connecting in to the US, you are not allowed to go through US customs any sooner that n minutes before departure. The same thing for getting in to the domestic departures. If you get to the airport early or have a long connection and want to go wait in the lounge you are told sorry sir for security reasons your not allowed to, you can go wait in the food court upstairs and come back 90 minutes before your flight departure. Hopefully they fix that.
     
     
  #9813  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2016, 2:07 AM
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I would also second Cage comment about the other airport terminals not being designed for large capacity aircraft. Locking forward to trying YYC.

I frequently do the Air Canada A330 from YVR to Montreal. When they run that flight out of gate 47 or 48 at YVR there simply is no room. There is a restaurant in the middle of the waiting area and people wrapped around it. Do zoned boarding and it an ever bigger mess since there is not enough space to sit down. There is limited place to stand. At the zone boarding signage makes it worse.

The YVR international terminal is much better. I recently did the Lufthansa Frankfurt 747 and the waiting are was crowded but not that bad.
     
     
  #9814  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2016, 2:27 AM
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
I frequently do the Air Canada A330 from YVR to Montreal. When they run that flight out of gate 47 or 48 at YVR there simply is no room. There is a restaurant in the middle of the waiting area and people wrapped around it. Do zoned boarding and it an ever bigger mess since there is not enough space to sit down. There is limited place to stand. At the zone boarding signage makes it worse.
This! Same with the 777s to YYZ!
     
     
  #9815  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2016, 7:47 PM
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Seizures of undeclared cash spike at Vancouver International Airport

As Vancouver’s housing market began sizzling, border guards at the nearby international airport were seizing millions of dollars in undeclared cash from Chinese citizens, with total amounts jumping 50 per cent in each of the past three calendar years, government data show.

According to the information, released to The Globe and Mail by a New Democrat MLA, during that period, border guards confiscated more than $13-million in hidden currency from 792 Chinese people passing through Vancouver International Airport, which is Canada’s second-busiest after Toronto. The average person had $17,000 in hidden bills, bank notes or drafts.

That is in addition to the $323-million declared at the airport by 20,000 Chinese citizens or passengers on flights to and from that country, during roughly the same period, according to data released to The Globe through a freedom of information request....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/brit...r-international-airport/article31787802/
     
     
  #9816  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2016, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
Cage - Great analysis.

......

My one wish for YYC once the new expansion is done is they get rid of the silly limits on when your allowed to go through security. It makes it an annoying airport to use. Coming in from YYJ or YXE and connecting in to the US, you are not allowed to go through US customs any sooner that n minutes before departure. The same thing for getting in to the domestic departures. If you get to the airport early or have a long connection and want to go wait in the lounge you are told sorry sir for security reasons your not allowed to, you can go wait in the food court upstairs and come back 90 minutes before your flight departure. Hopefully they fix that.
Thanks.

Likmits going through US pre-clearance are set by USCBP. Prior to the current 2 hour before departure limit there was a 7:30 am cut off. All departures between 6am and 7:30am had to line up in the left side and departures between 7:30 and 9am had to line up at the Right side.

The current 2 hour limit does not apply to Nexus holders or those seeking a work permit. The reason for the two hrs time limit is to provide USCBP with the ability to schedule their staff. One problem is that infrequent vacation travellers (eg families) arrive at the airport well in advance of their boarding time. So the 10am departures to LAX (Disney) and San Diego have pax arriving at 7am and interfering with the 8:30am departure o IAH.

The future has yet to be determined for new terminal operations, however the two hour time limit is in place for both YVR and YYZ T1. The one hope is that Calgary Aiport has worked out a solution with USCBP. Calgary Airport wants passengers through as early as possible so that they have a captive audience to spend at the food and retail outlets.

WRT domestic security time limits, I am not aware of any time limit that is before 4-6 hours prior to departure. Now YYC CATSA may be trying to invent a rule or two, but there is no blanket prohibition. If it happens again, ask for a supervisor, the BP scanning station at the start of the lineup is the lowest paid position on the totem pole, consequently most screeners cannot distinguish between the customer service features and the security requirements.

Personally I have gone through preboard security checkpoint C well before 90 minutes before departure in order to use the MLL and I have never been stopped (last time was in late December 2015). I have been stopped for instances where my flight was cancelled two minutes prio to me entering security, however a quick chat with a screening manager and I was let through.
     
     
  #9817  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2016, 11:40 PM
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....

The current 2 hour limit does not apply to Nexus holders or those seeking a work permit. The reason for the two hrs time limit is to provide USCBP with the ability to schedule their staff. One problem is that infrequent vacation travellers (eg families) arrive at the airport well in advance of their boarding time. So the 10am departures to LAX (Disney) and San Diego have pax arriving at 7am and interfering with the 8:30am departure o IAH.

The future has yet to be determined for new terminal operations, however the two hour time limit is in place for both YVR and YYZ T1. The one hope is that Calgary Aiport has worked out a solution with USCBP. Calgary Airport wants passengers through as early as possible so that they have a captive audience to spend at the food and retail outlets.

WRT domestic security time limits, I am not aware of any time limit that is before 4-6 hours prior to departure. Now YYC CATSA may be trying to invent a rule or two, but there is no blanket prohibition. If it happens again, ask for a supervisor, the BP scanning station at the start of the lineup is the lowest paid position on the totem pole, consequently most screeners cannot distinguish between the customer service features and the security requirements.
....
The difference with trans-boarder at YVR and YYZ is for connecting passengers you use a different lineup. YYC has connecting passengers in the same line as local passengers.

That was a good suggestion. Next time I am stuck in that situation departing YYC I will try escalating.
     
     
  #9818  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 9:08 PM
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I'd love to see a direct route between Austin and Vancouver!
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  #9819  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 9:21 PM
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business or tourist class?

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Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
I'd love to see a direct route between Austin and Vancouver!
Agreed!! You live in Austin,your avatar reads. Why Vancouver in particular, if I may ask your opinion on that. Do you fly to Asia frequently, or is it more just to visit Vancouver itself?
     
     
  #9820  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2016, 10:12 PM
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Looks like Garuda Indonesia is looking to launch SEA flights next year.

https://news.google.com/news/url?sr=1&sa...26213-garuda-indonesia-resume-flights-us

Would have been a good win for YVR, but I'd rather SIN so keeping fingers crossed for that route.
     
     
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