YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Klazu]

I hope Westjet will join Skyteam before end of the year so that I can get miles from my YVR-YYC-AMS-HEL-AMS-YVR trip in December. It was interesting that Westjet/KLM through Calgary was the cheapest route.

I was surprised tgat KLM flies a Dreamliner to Calgary but an A330 to Vancouver during winter. Oh well, better than the DC9 from the past...

[casper]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

The CRJ900 will be configured in a dual class with 76 seats with 12 seats in Business Class and 64 seats in Economy, including 20 Preferred seats which offer greater legroom. This configuration has become a standard for North American operators of the aircraft. Every seat will offer seatback in-flight entertainment as well as Gogo onboard internet access.

http://airwaysnews.com/blog/2016/04/26/air-canada-express-to-take-delivery-of-five-crj900s/

It is about time. The 705 in really a 900 that was configured with fewer seat due to union scope rules at Air Canada. It likely had other artificial limits imposed on it to justify selling it for a lower price. Not certain if these limits are real physical attributes of the aircraft or they are limits in the software and certification paper work.

Since the 705 is the same size inside as a 900 it had great legroom. Not anymore after the upgrade.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I hope Westjet will join Skyteam before end of the year so that I can get miles from my YVR-YYC-AMS-HEL-AMS-YVR trip in December. It was interesting that Westjet/KLM through Calgary was the cheapest route.

I was surprised tgat KLM flies a Dreamliner to Calgary but an A330 to Vancouver during winter. Oh well, better than the DC9 from the past...

Cool. If WestJet joined Skyteam I would shift a good percentage of my flying to WestJet from Air Canada.

On a different topic, Boeing just opened up a new office in Yaletown.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by casper

Since the 705 is the same size inside as a 900 it had great legroom. Not anymore after the upgrade.

It'll have normal legroom now I'd think. No more 34" pitch though (maybe the 20 preferred seats). It looks like they're adding 1 more business seat (from 75 to 76 total - it's only a 1 seat difference) and adding another business seat at the expense of a Y seat.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by casper

It is about time. The 705 in really a 900 that was configured with fewer seat due to union scope rules at Air Canada. It likely had other artificial limits imposed on it to justify selling it for a lower price. Not certain if these limits are real physical attributes of the aircraft or they are limits in the software and certification paper work.

Since the 705 is the same size inside as a 900 it had great legroom. Not anymore after the upgrade.

About time for what? This adds a whopping one seat to its total capacity, though in true Air Canada fashion it screws over the Economy pax to achieve an extra three J class seats.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by whatnext

About time for what? This adds a whopping one seat to its total capacity, though in true Air Canada fashion it screws over the Economy pax to achieve an extra three J class seats.

If that makes more money, it makes more money. There are still 20 preferred seats.

[sacrifice333]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I hope Westjet will join Skyteam before end of the year so that I can get miles from my YVR-YYC-AMS-HEL-AMS-YVR trip in December. It was interesting that Westjet/KLM through Calgary was the cheapest route.

I was surprised tgat KLM flies a Dreamliner to Calgary but an A330 to Vancouver during winter. Oh well, better than the DC9 from the past...

I normally attempt to credit my WJ flights to AA. Anything's better then the WJ dollars.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Is this true and are you serious? We're ahead of SEATTLE and just a bit behind SFO? And this is Skyteam, which includes Delta - so big in Seattle? Wheeeeew!!! If it's true. Even beat YYZ!
Amazing if Westjet joins Skyteam. Going head to head with *A like that.

Remember this is **international** seats. If you include domestic traffic, the picture is very different. But anyway, YVR is going from strength to strength on the international front.

It'll be interesting to see if Calgary's new international terminal will have any effect on YVR's growth.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Remember this is **international** seats. If you include domestic traffic, the picture is very different. But anyway, YVR is going from strength to strength on the international front.

It'll be interesting to see if Calgary's new international terminal will have any effect on YVR's growth.

As an Albertan so not showing bias!!

Terminals do not fuel growth, market size does.

There is nothing stopping any airline (within bilateral restrictions of course) from launching any service from YYC. With the new international terminal soon set to open there have been no route announcements post opening day yet. AM and CX could start YYC but have decided to increase YVR instead.

So now that we've all looked at the O&D Transborder numbers (again) hopefully we can put this to bed again.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

As an Albertan so not showing bias!!

Terminals do not fuel growth, market size does.

There is nothing stopping any airline (within bilateral restrictions of course) from launching any service from YYC. With the new international terminal soon set to open there have been no route announcements post opening day yet. AM and CX could start YYC but have decided to increase YVR instead.

Yup, agree... unless the airport is severely capacity constrained (think Kai Tak in HK pre 1998 before Chek Lap Kok was built).

But if this isn't really the case with YYC, and given the limited market size (as you point out), then I can't help but think the new international terminal seems like overkill: 2 million square feet of terminal space (doubling the size of the airport) and the addition of 24 international gates. I mean, I believe YVR only has around 34 international gates at present.

Maybe they're simply future proofing against long-term growth, but one can't help but wonder if YYC is also angling to try to grab some international transfer traffic?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Yup, agree... unless the airport is severely capacity constrained (think Kai Tak in HK pre 1998 before Chek Lap Kok was built).

But if this isn't really the case with YYC, and given the limited market size (as you point out), then I can't help but think the new international terminal seems like overkill: 2 million square feet of terminal space (doubling the size of the airport) and the addition of 24 international gates. I mean, I believe YVR only has around 34 international gates at present.

Maybe they're simply future proofing against long-term growth, but one can't help but wonder if YYC is also angling to try to grab some international transfer traffic?

Funny I was going to go back and edit about terminal or even runway constraints.

But yeah the "if we build it, they will come" strategy doesn't really work.

I'm sure YYC would love to grab some more international transfer traffic and perhaps the experience there will be fantastic. But at the end of the day YVR just seems to be gaining new flights from all over the place and this trend is not slowing. Although recently YYC has had some wins with Edelweiss and Hainan.

In a more local context YYC is gaining some traffic at YEG's expense as Alberta continues to struggle a bit. This winter both AC and WS are drawing down capacity further at YEG... meanwhile YYC is relatively flat. YYC is becoming a more significant gateway to the north. Both AC and WS are slowly shifting more capacity from the North to YYC from YEG. The AC offerings from YEG this winter are significantly lower than I have seen in ages. However, all this means both AC and WS are trying to support their hubs at YYC more or less.

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

About time for what? This adds a whopping one seat to its total capacity, though in true Air Canada fashion it screws over the Economy pax to achieve an extra three J class seats.

Building something like an aircraft, and them artificially limiting it usefulness by giving it a new part number and limiting what can done with it has always sounded odd to me.

Air Canada can make a premium on seat selection by taking part of the economy cabin making it a better passenger experience while making the rest a poorer experience. They did it to the other aircraft types in the fleet this one was just a matter of time.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I'm sure YYC would love to grab some more international transfer traffic and perhaps the experience there will be fantastic. But at the end of the day YVR just seems to be gaining new flights from all over the place and this trend is not slowing. Although recently YYC has had some wins with Edelweiss and Hainan.

YYC's difficulty in taking transfer PAX from YVR is that even if they do provide a fantastic experience, they are trying to out perform an airport that is consistently ranked one of the best on the continent. It's not like they are going up against an incumbent like LAX which has huge numbers but a lot of people would avoid if they could since the experience is awful, most reports seem to be that YVR is an airport of choice.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

YYC's difficulty in taking transfer PAX from YVR is that even if they do provide a fantastic experience, they are trying to out perform an airport that is consistently ranked one of the best on the continent. It's not like they are going up against an incumbent like LAX which has huge numbers but a lot of people would avoid if they could since the experience is awful, most reports seem to be that YVR is an airport of choice.

How does SEA-TAC stand up against YVR, in the categories on which airports are ranked?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

YYC's difficulty in taking transfer PAX from YVR is that even if they do provide a fantastic experience, they are trying to out perform an airport that is consistently ranked one of the best on the continent. It's not like they are going up against an incumbent like LAX which has huge numbers but a lot of people would avoid if they could since the experience is awful, most reports seem to be that YVR is an airport of choice.

Absolutely true. And the next expansion plan will be announced very soon. YVR is also constantly looking at improving the connection process. There is a lot of competition out there but YVR's leader seems to be dealing with that very well. I'd say since Mr Richmond has taken over there has been an unprecedented slew of new airlines, routes, services and improvements. He is helping chart the course for a solid competitive airport.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

How does SEA-TAC stand up against YVR, in the categories on which airports are ranked?

http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards/world_airport_rating.html

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards/world_airport_rating.html

I cringe at Skytrax's lists.... the fact Melbourne Airport is ranked so high (even #25) is rubbish. I agree with the top rankings generally but once it goes deeper down the list it all seems so arbitrary. Adelaide at #69 is far superior to MEL in so many ways.

[trofirhen]

Just a remark, with a link about Norwegian establishing a Barcelona long-haul base for several US, mostly West Coast, cities.
I wish there were a large enough market for them to come here from Barcelona, or even seasonally from Oslo. Wealthy Norwegians can fly where they want for holidays, and if there were a Tahiti market, the most direct nonstop OSL-PPT route cuts over the northern third of Vancouver Island, near Port Hardy. Voilà.
Such might be a seasonal route, but would be a start.... I know.... Dream on. But such an airline, and another European destination, still wouldn't be a bad thing for YVR to have.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/268762/where-is-norwegians-latest-long-haul-base/

[Gordon]

the fares on the new Air Canada yvr DFW service is $657 canadian #200 more thatn flying out of seattle

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Gordon

the fares on the new Air Canada yvr DFW service is $657 canadian #200 more thatn flying out of seattle

No impoliteness intended, but I would assume that is after the currency exchange rate is factored in?