Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Probably because them along with clintons wife Hillary and Donald Trump are all mentally ill themselvs. I would like to see all 4 of them locked in a hospital.

[Orlando]

I took this skyline shot when I was in town at the end of June. 111 sure helps to fill in the skyline.

[bflatflat9]

From that angle, the Regent Hotel would fill in another gap.

[Stenar]

The hospitals were not empty, and not all of the facilities were hospitals. When Reagan closed them, millions of mentally ill people were just dumped onto the streets.

The old system was legislated out of existence. Carter signed a bill to mostly continue the status quo a month before the election. Almost the moment Reagan took over, he and the Republicans who had just taken control of Congress, discarded that bill, and ended the federal government's role in providing services to the mentally ill.

By the time Clinton became president, those institutions had been closed for 12 years. No one is going to go back and recreate a system that has been gone for that long. In 1996, Bill Clinton passed the Mental Health Parity Act, which required health insurers to provide as much coverage for mental illness as it did for other types of illness.

What has replaced mental health institutions is prison.

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

The ACLU won landmark cases that prevented institutions from forcing drugs onto the mentally ill and from committing them unless they could prove to a judge that that person was an imminent danger to themselves or others. Believe it or not but most mentally ill people didn't want to live in hospitals. The government could not force them into hospitals and it did not make sense to fund empty hospitals. They tried to fund outpatient facilities but many of the people that need help either don't want it or aren't very good at seeking it.

Why do you think that neither Clinton nor Obama in the 16 years that they togetther had in office tried to reopen them? The old model was litigated out of existence it wasn't legislated out. We have yet to find something effective, and legal, to replace it with.

[airhero]

Here are some pics I took from my walk/drive through town yesterday:

4th West Apartments

From the southwest:


From the east:


Different section from the east:


Hardware Village West

It's going up pretty quickly. Also the developers have submitted for a building permit for East Village(I suppose that's phase 2 and the office building/plaza phase 3) so that will probably be under construction by early next year.


From the northwest:


From the southwest:


From the southeast:


Alta Gateway


Paragon Station Lofts


Bonneville Apartments


Liberty Boulevard I think???


900 East Lofts


Liberty Crest


I'm not sure how I like the finishes overall on this building but I definitely like the cedar planks:


111
Rushed picture:

[ajiuO]

-Does anybody know if the space in the base of 111 has been leased and if so what will be going in there?

- Is there any word on what restaurant will be going in the building currently being renovated on 100 S and Regent street?

- Will there be another restaurant on the regent street side of the UPAC building or is that just an exit for UPAC.

- What is going on with the burnt down building across from UPAC on Main Street. Are they just going to leave it like that forever, or will they tear it down.

[TonyAnderson]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Yes. Welcome to Any Major U.S. City USA.

It's not unique to Salt Lake.

From the majority of cities I've traveled to I haven't seen quite the congregation of homeless that I have seen in Salt Lake. Maybe other major cities are more used to the problem and have put in measures to help alleviate whereas it's a new thing for SLC. Not sure, but even walking around places like Chicago I never noticed anything near what goes on the Rio Grande area.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by airhero

Here are some pics I took from my walk/drive through town yesterday:

4th West Apartments

From the southwest:


From the east:


Different section from the east:


Hardware Village West

It's going up pretty quickly. Also the developers have submitted for a building permit for East Village(I suppose that's phase 2 and the office building/plaza phase 3) so that will probably be under construction by early next year.


From the northwest:


From the southwest:


From the southeast:


Alta Gateway


Paragon Station Lofts


Bonneville Apartments


Liberty Boulevard I think???


900 East Lofts


Liberty Crest


I'm not sure how I like the finishes overall on this building but I definitely like the cedar planks:


111
Rushed picture:

Great photo update!

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by stayinginformed

4% by volume is equal to 3.2% by weight, just a different way of measuring, still the same weak beer.

This is what is so ironic about many of the complainers of the 3.2% alcohol by weight. Not so much in regular beer but light beer. For any person that ever drove to Wyoming to buy Bud Light, Coors Light, and many other light beers, they are complete idiots. Non Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Minnesota and Kansas Bud Light is 4.2% by volume, while Utah's is 4.0% by volume, very minimal amount. Many light beers are hardly different.

Yes many of the full strength major brewery beers are stronger, but in the "Light" category there really isn't much of a difference.

On a related note, Colorado is close to eliminating the 3.2 restriction, and Oklahoma and Kansas may be close behind. That would pretty much eliminate the need for large breweries to make the 3.2 anymore as Colorado and Oklahoma are 60% of the 1.8% market that 3.2 beer has nationwide.

[UTPlanner]

There was some recent chatter related to a new apartment building on the northwest corner of 300 West and North Temple. I saw the plans this morning. It will occupy the entire property including the hotel and the small deli. It's 240 units and will not include any retail. It's a purely residential structure. Because someone will inevitably ask, there is very little stucco on the exterior structure. It is mainly brick, hardiboard and glass with stucco trim elements.

[airhero]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

There was some recent chatter related to a new apartment building on the northwest corner of 300 West and North Temple. I saw the plans this morning. It will occupy the entire property including the hotel and the small deli. It's 240 units and will not include any retail. It's a purely residential structure. Because someone will inevitably ask, there is very little stucco on the exterior structure. It is mainly brick, hardiboard and glass with stucco trim elements.

Good to know it will include the deli site. You can never tell with the city's online records.

https://aca.slcgov.com/citizen/

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

There was some recent chatter related to a new apartment building on the northwest corner of 300 West and North Temple. I saw the plans this morning. It will occupy the entire property including the hotel and the small deli. It's 240 units and will not include any retail. It's a purely residential structure. Because someone will inevitably ask, there is very little stucco on the exterior structure. It is mainly brick, hardiboard and glass with stucco trim elements.

As long as it's beige. I'm glad to hear that is will come up to the corner of 3rd and N. Temple. While I'm a fan of retail in most buildings, I'm not sure that would be an ideal location for retail anyway. With the dearth of retail at Gateway, I think all residential in this location is just fine.

Honestly though, I'm glad to hear that it is brick, cement board and glass.

[AllOutOfBubbleGum]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

This is what is so ironic about many of the complainers of the 3.2% alcohol by weight. Not so much in regular beer but light beer. For any person that ever drove to Wyoming to buy Bud Light, Coors Light, and many other light beers, they are complete idiots. Non Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Minnesota and Kansas Bud Light is 4.2% by volume, while Utah's is 4.0% by volume, very minimal amount. Many light beers are hardly different.

Yes many of the full strength major brewery beers are stronger
, but in the "Light" category there really isn't much of a difference.

On a related note, Colorado is close to eliminating the 3.2 restriction, and Oklahoma and Kansas may be close behind. That would pretty much eliminate the need for large breweries to make the 3.2 anymore as Colorado and Oklahoma are 60% of the 1.8% market that 3.2 beer has nationwide.

Maybe we need to serve this to the DABC. They might "lighten up"
https://youtu.be/9LiyWqgrNUs

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by UTPlanner

There was some recent chatter related to a new apartment building on the northwest corner of 300 West and North Temple. I saw the plans this morning. It will occupy the entire property including the hotel and the small deli. It's 240 units and will not include any retail. It's a purely residential structure. Because someone will inevitably ask, there is very little stucco on the exterior structure. It is mainly brick, hardiboard and glass with stucco trim elements.

Mostly good news.... one less place to eat in the area though :-( I was kind of hoping the delli or somthing else would go in the base on the corner. There was originally a Denny's followed by Taco Time, Subway, then the North Temple Deli. so there has always been a food presence on that corner.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by TonyAnderson

From the majority of cities I've traveled to I haven't seen quite the congregation of homeless that I have seen in Salt Lake. Maybe other major cities are more used to the problem and have put in measures to help alleviate whereas it's a new thing for SLC. Not sure, but even walking around places like Chicago I never noticed anything near what goes on the Rio Grande area.

I bet most people who visit Salt Lake aren't aware of these camps, either. When you visit a city, you rarely venture into the seedy areas that offer little in tourism or hospitality. Why would you be aware of these areas if you didn't go out of your way to find them?

Just a quick Google search found...

Denver:







Seattle:





Portland:









Las Vegas:





Vegas has tunnels the homeless often camp out in.

Phoenix:





Boise:







That doesn't even get into the most populated regional cities like L.A., San Francisco and Oakland - where there are whole neighborhoods of camps in some areas.

What I posted above is not much better than Salt Lake's homeless epidemic. In some ways, they're worse and wider stretching.

SLC is not unique. We're just aware of it because we live here and know the areas where the homeless camps are set up. Go to Phoenix or Portland or Denver and their locals are well aware of their problem, too. But just because you haven't seen it while visiting doesn't mean it's there. It's there. It's always been there and, sadly, will always be there.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

This is what is so ironic about many of the complainers of the 3.2% alcohol by weight. Not so much in regular beer but light beer. For any person that ever drove to Wyoming to buy Bud Light, Coors Light, and many other light beers, they are complete idiots. Non Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Minnesota and Kansas Bud Light is 4.2% by volume, while Utah's is 4.0% by volume, very minimal amount. Many light beers are hardly different.

Yes many of the full strength major brewery beers are stronger, but in the "Light" category there really isn't much of a difference.

On a related note, Colorado is close to eliminating the 3.2 restriction, and Oklahoma and Kansas may be close behind. That would pretty much eliminate the need for large breweries to make the 3.2 anymore as Colorado and Oklahoma are 60% of the 1.8% market that 3.2 beer has nationwide.

I could see breweries stopping production at that point. I'm not sure what % of the remaining 40% Utah has over Kansas... but less then 40% of 1.8% of tha market hardly seems worth it. Plus they know they will recover part of that from an increased demand from higher % alcohol at Utah State Liquor stores...

I wonder if only being able to buy non refrigerated beer at the limited chain of Utah State liquor stores would be enough to push people in to demanding change or if the state would just control it all... no beer on Sunday... the church will love that.

The liquor store on 200 west is already crazy. The parking situation causes traffic problems on Friday and Saturday nights... last time I was there, there was a homeless guy who was taking it upon himself to put on an orange vest and direct people traffic in the parking lot... he was just working for tips... now that's a homeless guy I can get behind :-) the liquor store should be paying him to do that because it's a mess... they really need to add more stores or else move that one... I vote for both.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

I could see breweries stopping production at that point. I'm not sure what % of the remaining 40% Utah has over Kansas... but less then 40% of 1.8% of tha market hardly seems worth it. Plus they know they will recover part of that from an increased demand from higher % alcohol at Utah State Liquor stores...

I wonder if only being able to buy non refrigerated beer at the limited chain of Utah State liquor stores would be enough to push people in to demanding change or if the state would just control it all... no beer on Sunday... the church will love that.

The liquor store on 200 west is already crazy. The parking situation causes traffic problems on Friday and Saturday nights... last time I was there, there was a homeless guy who was taking it upon himself to put on an orange vest and direct people traffic in the parking lot... he was just working for tips... now that's a homeless guy I can get behind :-) the liquor store should be paying him to do that because it's a mess... they really need to add more stores or else move that one... I vote for both.

I remember a recent article about the DABC needing and wanting to build more stores, but many communities didn't want them in the city. They should implement a zip code capture on the registers, allow them to track what zip codes people are from that are making purchases. That way when a city says they don't need it or want it the DABC can back up that yes they actually do, with facts. I assume the local municipalities get the same portion of sales tax as any retails store, from DABC sales, if so this would be a great argument in getting new DABC stores where they are needed, as all cities love sales tax revenue.

As for Salt Lake City, in addition to the 5 existing liquor stores, Downtown, N. Temple, Avenues, Foothill, and Sugarhouse, and the two wine stores, 300 W and 300 E, they need to either re-open the old Main St location, or build a new one in the Midtown area, they also need to one in east downtown, and Glendale, plus a remodel or relocation of the 200 W location.

[Comrade]

I'd like for them to expand the SugarHouse location. It's far too small to handle the amount of people there - and it's outdated. Better yet, just start allowing liquor to be sold in limited grocery stores pending community approval.

[jedikermit]

Thanks Comrade,

That does give some perspective. As with so many other urban challenges, I wish there was an easy solution. It is troubling that there's been a media blitz over the last year, with SLC trumpeting that they've essentially "solved the homeless problem." There's been progress made, and I hope the coming changes are more moves in the right direction.

[jedikermit]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Better yet, just start allowing liquor to be sold in limited grocery stores pending community approval.

That makes too much sense.