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  #1081  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 5:49 AM
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Klazu Klazu is offline
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I can see my home from there!

I hope more of Beresford east of Metroplace will get developed and more walk-ups in the area being replaced with 20-30 floor towers. The area will so benefit from the clean-up that is coming...
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  #1082  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 2:55 PM
sburnaby33 sburnaby33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
I can see my home from there!

I hope more of Beresford east of Metroplace will get developed and more walk-ups in the area being replaced with 20-30 floor towers. The area will so benefit from the clean-up that is coming...
The main issue with development in Burnaby is that the people being evicted for these projects are basically thrown out onto the street without a guarantee that other accommodations in the city are possible. There is no impetuous for ensuring affordable rental stock continues to be a part of the community. We all know that the market rates for new buildings will be at least 500 to 700 bucks a month more than what they are already paying for a 1-bedroom.

Despite the preceding the area does indeed need to be developed. The walk ups are old and are reaching the best before date. Many have exceeded them in fact because of neglect and a lack of care. As well, with the increase in Burnaby's population greater density needs to occur with the best places for this being in the four major town centres and the two community centres (Hastings and Royal Oak). I just believe Burnaby could find a better way to do things that will minimize the impact of residents in areas that are undergoing major redevelopment.
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  #1083  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 3:00 PM
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Why is it that most new developments are being built where there are already apartments in Metrotown? Empty looks like at the intersection of Willingdon and Kingsway or those shitty stores north of Kingsway are just left alone? It seems illogical.
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  #1084  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 6:14 PM
Spr0ckets Spr0ckets is online now
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Originally Posted by BobLoblawsLawBlog View Post
Why is it that most new developments are being built where there are already apartments in Metrotown? Empty looks like at the intersection of Willingdon and Kingsway or those shitty stores north of Kingsway are just left alone? It seems illogical.
Because that's where the prime lots are.
Closer to the actual transit line and Skytrain stations.

And it's also where the city grants most density (tower heights) based on their overall plan,......which in turn means more ROI for the developers who are able to fit more units into a single lot than one of comparable size much farther away,......even for those adjacent to Kingsway.

Eventually they'll run out of those lots neighbouring the Skytrain station and will begin gobbling up those ones North of Kingsway (its already started happening with the Sussex street project).

I believe the city will eventually allow more density the farther you get from the transit stations and lines and allow more taller towers to be built (even though the area you referenced is technically within the "downtown" core per the city zoning plan, which would theoretically allow more height) - since demand and the market will call for it.

I don't really know how they will (or could) deal with the replacement of rental units problem with the walk-ups being demolished. Or if they even can.

You can't really force developers to build rental units for less than market value to replace the units in the walk-ups they're tearing down. And the most they can do is offer incentives for more "affordable" units within these towers (which the other residents then hate). But there's only so much you can offer.

It's a tough one.
But it's a problem they will eventually have to grapple with sooner or later.
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  #1085  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2016, 9:07 PM
VivaPhysicality VivaPhysicality is offline
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Originally Posted by BobLoblawsLawBlog View Post
Why is it that most new developments are being built where there are already apartments in Metrotown? Empty looks like at the intersection of Willingdon and Kingsway or those shitty stores north of Kingsway are just left alone? It seems illogical.
I personally don't mind the gritty, rundown small businesses set up along Kingsway. They make the street feel a lot more layered and multidimensional than it would be if they were replaced with sterile glass condos.

The giant parking lots at Old Orchard, Esso, and Metropolis are what I want to see redeveloped.

There are also quite a few big empty retail buildings now where Target, Best Buy, and Staples used to be. I wonder how long those will sit empty for.
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  #1086  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Spr0ckets View Post
Because that's where the prime lots are.
Closer to the actual transit line and Skytrain stations.

And it's also where the city grants most density (tower heights) based on their overall plan,......which in turn means more ROI for the developers who are able to fit more units into a single lot than one of comparable size much farther away,......even for those adjacent to Kingsway.
I thought all sites within Metrotown were granted up to 5 FSR.

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Originally Posted by Spr0ckets View Post
I don't really know how they will (or could) deal with the replacement of rental units problem with the walk-ups being demolished. Or if they even can.

You can't really force developers to build rental units for less than market value to replace the units in the walk-ups they're tearing down. And the most they can do is offer incentives for more "affordable" units within these towers (which the other residents then hate). But there's only so much you can offer.
In Vancouver you can force developers to include social housing as a condition of their rezoning. Is there a reason why that can't be done in Burnaby?

If you stipulate that 20% of the new units in Metrotown were to be HILS rate, that would more than replace the lost walk-up units. Then Burnaby can truly claim that they're building a diverse and inclusive community.
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  #1087  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 1:20 AM
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Originally Posted by VivaPhysicality View Post
I personally don't mind the gritty, rundown small businesses set up along Kingsway. They make the street feel a lot more layered and multidimensional than it would be if they were replaced with sterile glass condos.

The giant parking lots at Old Orchard, Esso, and Metropolis are what I want to see redeveloped.

There are also quite a few big empty retail buildings now where Target, Best Buy, and Staples used to be. I wonder how long those will sit empty for.
It won't be condo towers fronting Kingsway - it'll be like where Best Buy used to be. There'll be a retail podium facing Kingsway and the condo entrance would be on Hazel St.

Old Orchard - haven't heard anything yet but it's a given
Esso - I'm pretty sure that's where they want to put the event / convention centre
Metropolis - the slow moving Sear redevelopment

I would love for the Target space to be rebuilt into something other than basic retail. It's odd that we haven't heard anything yet when most / all of the other nearby Target locations have already reopened as something else (usually Walmart).
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  #1088  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
It won't be condo towers fronting Kingsway - it'll be like where Best Buy used to be. There'll be a retail podium facing Kingsway and the condo entrance would be on Hazel St.

Old Orchard - haven't heard anything yet but it's a given
Esso - I'm pretty sure that's where they want to put the event / convention centre
Metropolis - the slow moving Sear redevelopment

I would love for the Target space to be rebuilt into something other than basic retail. It's odd that we haven't heard anything yet when most / all of the other nearby Target locations have already reopened as something else (usually Walmart).

Given that the space is too small for a Walmart (or say, a Costco), and that finding anchor tenants of that size is never an easy task, it wouldn't surprise me to see that space sitting idle and empty for quite a while yet.

In fact I'm willing to bet that the old Best Buy space on Kingsway and probably the old Staples location, get new tenants before that Target space gets filled.
I think the mall would be better served breaking it up into smaller lots and finding smaller tenants than hoping for an anchor tenant.
It might even open up an opportunity to completely revamp and redevelop that whole Central boulevard side of the mall, east of the office towers to go along with all the redevelopment of the towers and Skytrain station that's already happening on the other side of the street.
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  #1089  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
......

In Vancouver you can force developers to include social housing as a condition of their rezoning. Is there a reason why that can't be done in Burnaby?

If you stipulate that 20% of the new units in Metrotown were to be HILS rate, that would more than replace the lost walk-up units. Then Burnaby can truly claim that they're building a diverse and inclusive community.
Except I imagine that that wouldn't be seen as being very Developer-friendly - which is currently a reputation that Burnaby has over Vancouver and one plays a role in seeing a lot (as in, a whole hell of a lot) of development projects being undertaken in in Burnaby versus Vancouver.

Yes, the socially responsible thing to do would be to cater to those lost lower-income housing needs even as you invite more redevelopment.
But that tends to come at a cost that's borne by the developers sacrificing some of their profits in the saleable units lost.

The city is currently under quite a bit of pressure to address the demolition of walk-ups issue, so we may yet see them change course to have similar requirements as Vancouver does.
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  #1090  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 7:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Spr0ckets View Post
Given that the space is too small for a Walmart (or say, a Costco), and that finding anchor tenants of that size is never an easy task, it wouldn't surprise me to see that space sitting idle and empty for quite a while yet.
How big is the downtown Costco?
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  #1091  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 8:11 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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The Metrotown and Edmonds skyline taken by me earlier today.


Place a couple of 80 storey towers there to spice up that skyline.
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  #1092  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Spr0ckets View Post
I think the mall would be better served breaking it up into smaller lots and finding smaller tenants than hoping for an anchor tenant.
It might even open up an opportunity to completely revamp and redevelop that whole Central boulevard side of the mall, east of the office towers to go along with all the redevelopment of the towers and Skytrain station that's already happening on the other side of the street.
I would love to see the Target space redeveloped - but even just breaking it into two stores (like Chapters / Old Navy at the other end of the mall) is not likely to happen anytime soon.
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  #1093  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 8:42 PM
retro_orange retro_orange is offline
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I would love to see the Target space redeveloped - but even just breaking it into two stores (like Chapters / Old Navy at the other end of the mall) is not likely to happen anytime soon.
why wouldn't they?
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  #1094  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 9:06 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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https://www.biv.com/article/2016/8/duelling-supreme-court-lawsuits-over-major-burnaby/


Duelling Supreme Court lawsuits over major Burnaby property deal expose Metrotown land-use bonanza


Three properties in Burnaby assessed for a total of less than $15 million sold for $40 million in May, and a pair of duelling lawsuits over the property deal has exposed details of just how much increased density in the Metrotown area is worth to developers.


On July 5, businessman Wen Xue Wang sued Vancouver Home Park Realty Ltd., agent Laura Zhao and her personal real estate corporation, and company president Raymond Zhao in BC Supreme Court. Wang claims he retained Laura Zhao when he bought three properties on Sussex Avenue in Burnaby. Prior to the sales and subsequent assignments, Wang claims the Zhaos had him sign a “bonus agreement” that he didn’t understand.

“Wang, who is of Chinese ethnicity, and cannot understand, read nor speak English, asked Laura and Raymond to translate the bonus agreement so he did not understand its contents and relied on Laura and Raymond to explain it to him,” the claim states. “Raymond and Laura informed Wang that the bonus agreement was for disclosure purposes as required by the Real Estate Council of BC.”


But Wang claims he was induced to sign the agreement under false pretenses after discovering that $300,000 was “erroneously deducted from his portion of the assignment fee.”

“The bonus agreement was created by Laura ... solely for her own personal gain and for no benefit whatsoever to Wang,” the claim states.

While Wang’s lawsuit contains few details about the deals for the properties at 6525, 6559, and 6585 Sussex Avenue, a suit filed on July 11 by Vancouver Home Park Realty Ltd. against Wang states that the properties ultimately sold for $40 million. The realty firm claims in a notice of civil claim that Wang had an “exclusive listing agreement” with the firm for the three properties, listing them for $38.7 million between Nov. 30, 2015, and May 30, 2016.

“The plaintiff actively marketed the properties for the defendant in accordance with the terms of the exclusive listing agreement,” the claim states. “Unbeknownst to the plaintiff, while the exclusive listing agreement was still in effect, the defendant hired another agent to market the properties.”

Vancouver Home Park Realty claims Wang owes more than $1.5 million in commissions under the listing agreement.

The company’s lawyer refused to comment on the lawsuit.

“At this time we would have no comment as to what Mr. Wang did, or didn’t, do and we are not in a position to speak to his motivations,” Kevin McKenzie of Cummings McKenzie stated in an email to Business in Vancouver.

Wang’s lawyer also refused to comment on the lawsuits or the size of the deal.

“At the heart of this litigation matter is the real estate commission bonus dispute, and not the purchase price of the properties in issue,” Bernard Lau stated in an email.

None of the lawsuits’ allegations have been tested or proven in court.

Realtor Casey Weeks, a vice-president with Colliers International who handled the sale of 6585 Sussex, told BIV in a phone interview that he couldn’t comment on the lawsuits involving Wang and Vancouver Home Park Realty. But Weeks said the deal’s price and assessed values of the properties are so far apart because the current zoning allows for a 40-storey highrise on lands currently occupied by low-rise rental stock.

“It’s a prime location,” Weeks said. “It’s right across from the SkyTrain station. Transit-oriented development is desirable for condo buyers and retailers and office users who will all be part of the mixed-use development whenever it’s redeveloped. When you go from a very low- or medium-density site to a highrise site, it’s going to fetch a much higher price, and that’s what happened.”

According to land title documents, all three properties are now owned by 6511 Sussex Height Development Ltd., which was formerly a numbered B.C. company. It shares an address with Thind Properties Ltd. on Kingsway, but no one from the company responded to BIV’s request for comment by press time.

For broker Brandon Harding with NAI Commercial, the size of the deal at the heart of the lawsuits was surprising, but not unpredictable. Harding wrote in May of last year that Metrotown was experiencing a “calm before the storm” due to the City of Burnaby’s aggressive land-use plan to raise density around the mall. Having been involved in many deals in the area, including the properties that were the subject of so-called “demoviction” protests, he said that prices in the area are indeed rising due to future development potential.

“The city picks where they want to throw highrises, and you just get, you know, a lottery ticket,” Harding told BIV in a phone interview. “Your profits basically double. When you can put a big tower on a little piece of land, it’s obvious that the land values are going to skyrocket. And when you take away all that [rental] supply, obviously people are going to get upset.”
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  #1095  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 9:30 PM
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why wouldn't they?
It's been over a year and all that's happened is the Spirit Halloween store was there for a couple months. They really don't seem to be in any hurry to do anything with the space.
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  #1096  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 9:59 PM
retro_orange retro_orange is offline
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
It's been over a year and all that's happened is the Spirit Halloween store was there for a couple months. They really don't seem to be in any hurry to do anything with the space.
True. Maybe Metrotown has been secretly incognito about their redevelopment and will surprise us in the near future! With new taxes and market conditions, it would be great if Metrotown built affordable rental apartments, office space and family sized market condos. It would be great to redevelop the parkade and Target to the east and cover up the bus loop in a similar concept to Plaza 88 in New West which would help integrate the skytrain with the mall. Plus all the surface parking to the north of the theatres. Feasible?
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  #1097  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by retro_orange View Post
True. Maybe Metrotown has been secretly incognito about their redevelopment and will surprise us in the near future! With new taxes and market conditions, it would be great if Metrotown built affordable rental apartments, office space and family sized market condos. It would be great to redevelop the parkade and Target to the east and cover up the bus loop in a similar concept to Plaza 88 in New West which would help integrate the skytrain with the mall. Plus all the surface parking to the north of the theatres. Feasible?
Why would they keep it secret for this long? The Target space has been a big money pit for them - you'd think they'd want something in there in less than a year.

As much as I'd love to see it happen, I don't know if it would be possible to demolish the entire east parkade. If you look closely you'll see the third tower along Bonsor (from Central Blvd) has a podium that's attached to it, as is the mall itself. Would it be worth the effort to try to remove the parkade without damaging either of those buildings?

The Sears redevelopment would be roughly from McKercher Ave over to Nelson - I'm not sure if it starts from the driveway next to Sears or from the overhead walkway to nowhere. Either way that's a lot of surface and underground parking that will be going and the mall already can't afford to lose any. It's not just at xmas that the parking lots fill up.

The Sears proposal has office space, Station Square has office space, the towers along Beresford have office space and there's the third Metrotower (which still isn't full). So I really can't see more office space being built at the mall itself after that. Maybe in the future they'll add some when Kingsway is fully redeveloped.

It's a completely different layout to New West Station / Plaza 88 (which I go to regularly btw). I haven't heard about any plans for the land under the Skytrain tracks so I suspect they want to keep it as a strip park, which isn't a bad idea.
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  #1098  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 11:49 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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From 2013:

Quote:
...
Graeme Silvera, vice-president of retail development for the Western Region for Ivanhoe Cambridge, says he's been working with TransLink consistently over the last three months and would like to see the buses move to the south side location of Beresford, as well.

"Ultimately, in the future we'd like a solution to also route trolley buses away from that area," Silvera told the NOW. "Ultimately, that would be the preference for Ivanhoe Cambridge. It would be a future site of Metrotower IV one day."
...
See more at: http://www.burnabynow.com/news/proposed-...urs-debate-1.724839#sthash.dK6An2SE.dpuf
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  #1099  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 11:58 PM
Spr0ckets Spr0ckets is online now
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I thought the city was adamantly against that proposal (with the idea being that South of Central Boulevard and on Beresford, really, being envisioned as a sort of pedestrian plaza or boulevard of sorts and art walkway fronting the line of towers south of Beresford.)

I remember seeing one of the initial renders of the architects of the redesigned Skytrain station that had the bus loop relocated South but later abandoned as the city wasn't too keen on that idea (or was it Translink? although if Ivan Cambridge are now working with the Translink on this new proposal that would suggest otherwise).

Edit : I've just read your link and it seems to confirm the same. The city wasn't too keen on that idea although both Translink and Ivan Cambridge were or are really pushing for it.
It's funny to note that I learned about the proposal to move the Loop south on Beresford from the VIA (the Architect's) website when the mistakenly posted the images they were not supposed to (and had to apologize for).
Also interesting to learn that Ivan Cambridge are mulling adding another office tower to the area (Metrotower IV). I'm not even sure how you would fit an office tower on that side of that mall (where the bus loop currently is). Or if they'd even be enough market demand for office space if they did build it considering how MetroVancouver (which essentially owns Metrotower 3) is having difficulties getting tentants for the floor spaces they don't need.

Unless they were just bringing it up to bolster their argument to move the bus loop.
Interesting.

Last edited by Spr0ckets; Aug 18, 2016 at 12:09 AM.
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  #1100  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2016, 12:22 AM
excel excel is offline
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Originally Posted by Jebby View Post
How big is the downtown Costco?
About 2/3 the size of an average Costco.
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