YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I don't disagree that holding on to what they have now is a great result given the current conditions, but once again I don't understand what KLM and Icelandair have to do with their cargo hub plan?

What I was saying is that their big plans to be a cargo hub have fallen pretty flat. Not only did they have some of the lowest growth in the country in Cargo, they are starting from a tiny base number so their growth as a % should be much higher. The Air China freighter is great, but with YVR and YYC already seeing multiple dedicated cargo freighters they are just playing catch-up.

Just to put it into perspective, YVR with 9.6% growth added nearly the entire cargo operations of YEG in a single year.

I'm not a freight forwarding expert, but KLM and Icelandair are important because cargo goes into their bellies, and up to this point they have been able to maintain a regularly scheduled network - IMO I suppose that's YEG's win, so far.

I'm a YVR booster and I don't have a dog in this race, but Leduc and YEG are making an aggressive play to be a thriving aerotropolis. I don't imaging it will be a big passenger hub like YVR, or even a YYC, but more along the lines of a western YHM or even an ANC.

I wouldn't believe every press release from YEG/EIA, but YEG isn't a YWG (EDIT - natch, YWG has bigger cargo numbers.) And I like the underdog quality of YEG. It's fun to run an airport when the economy is booming and people are knocking at your door - trying to grow routes when times are tough requires brains and guts. And in a few years, when oil is up and China is in trouble, the shoe will be on the other foot and YVR will need to keep planning despite bad numbers.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

I'm a YVR booster and I don't have a dog in this race, but Leduc and YEG are making an aggressive play to be a thriving aerotropolis

Out of curiosity, how did you come across that initiative and what do you think of it?

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Out of curiosity, how did you come across that initiative and what do you think of it?

...a 30 second google search. As well, the original 'aerotropolis' team referenced a lot on the YVR thread identified Vancouver and edmonton as potential aerotropoli.

is it viable? i don't know all the details, but it's a bold plan that has viability. who knows, maybe the foreign carriers will pull out in the near future. But I also think that local airport authority has a lot more sway on route development than people realize.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by mezzanine

...a 30 second google search. As well, the original 'aerotropolis' team referenced a lot on the YVR thread identified Vancouver and edmonton as potential aerotropoli.

is it viable? i don't know all the details, but it's a bold plan that has viability. who knows, maybe the foreign carriers will pull out in the near future. But I also think that local airport authority has a lot more sway on route development than people realize.

As I said before, YEG's potential seems to have been lost in study after study instead of doing. Don't forget YEG was booming more than ever during the last oil high cycle and the numbers churned out for 2015 would have only started to show signs of weakness. So during those boom years very little was achieved.

Their local airport authority has had very little sway in route development as quite the opposite has happened and it's only getting worse.

YYC has already well established itself as Western Canada's distribution centre and that area of Calgary where YYC is located is going crazy with development despite the downturn.

The other factor against Edmonton is its much smaller market size (not population but market size) as an origin and as a destination compared to Calgary.

I also think if China is in trouble it will affect everyone.

[Johnny Aussie]

Trying to focus getting this back on track about YVR.

As mentioned in a recent post summer 2017 schedules are starting to roll out. So far Condor and Edelweiss and now the latest is a minor tweak from Air Transat.

Next summer TS is increasing MAN to three weekly instead of two.

One of the YYC-MAN flights will now originate in YVR.

So summer 2017 YVR-Europe looks like 18 flights per week to:
LGW(7), MAN(3), AMS(3), CDG(3), GLA(1) and FCO(1).

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

As I said before, YEG's potential seems to have been lost in study after study instead of doing. Don't forget YEG was booming more than ever during the last oil high cycle and the numbers churned out for 2015 would have only started to show signs of weakness. So during those boom years very little was achieved.

Their local airport authority has had very little sway in route development as quite the opposite has happened and it's only getting worse.

YYC has already well established itself as Western Canada's distribution centre and that area of Calgary where YYC is located is going crazy with development despite the downturn.

The other factor against Edmonton is its much smaller market size (not population but market size) as an origin and as a destination compared to Calgary.

I also think if China is in trouble it will affect everyone.

IMO any airport authority plays a big role. I'd want my airport authority to punch above its weight. Pick your fights, but punch above your weight. Larry Burg and Craig Richmond have really knocked it out of the park (TWOV, APC kiosk development, international-to-transborder swing gates, canada line, frozen aeronautical fees, etc), I suppose YEG's authority has done work for the better and the worse.

but i don't understand the hate-on for the YEG aerotropolis plans, especially considering how difficult it was to grow YVR in the past. We are expecting 5 million more pax in the next 5 years, but it took ~13 years to get our prior 5 million, longer if you take into account the blip before 9/11. Oddly, if you believe VancityBuzz's numbers, YVR's cargo numbers have been flat and still down from the 1999 peak.

Regardless, i won't post on this anymore...

[Johnny Aussie]

Nice little article about Westjet's July numbers and YVR's contribution to that.

The capacity shift and growth into YVR seems to be filling seats.

https://www.biv.com/article/2016/8/vancouver-contributes-westjets-busiest-ever-july/

[Johnny Aussie]

http://vancouversun.com/business/local-b...-income-data-analytics-jobs-to-vancouver

Just another little uptick in the right direction.

Story is conflicting though, is it 200 or 50 jobs?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

http://vancouversun.com/business/local-b...-income-data-analytics-jobs-to-vancouver
Story is conflicting though, is it 200 or 50 jobs?

Yeah, it's very contradictory. The page's title tag and the image caption both say 200, the headline and the text body say 50.

[excel]

To be expected coming from the Vancouver Sun. Sounds like it is 50 however.

[trofirhen]

I wonder if next year will bring any major new routes and / or airlines, or if it will be more an augmentation of what YVR already has.

[Gordon]

There are more Chinese routes aren't there?

It would be nice to see YVR include some sort of retractable covers from the new holdrooms to the planes for the new pier A gates that should open soon.

[nname]

Seems like Beijing Capital's is going to start selling tickets soon:

[...]

The Agency has considered the application and is of the opinion that Beijing Capital Airlines, by agreeing to apply Hainan Airlines’ Tariff NTA(A) No. 536 to the sale of its fares on an interim basis in lieu of filing its own tariff with the Agency and committing to filing its own tariff prior to its first flights operating at the end of November 2016, has taken actions that are as effective as compliance with the requirement to file its own tariff.

[...]

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-125

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-126

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Seems like Beijing Capital's is going to start selling tickets soon:

Yes, and Hainan as well to Tianjin.

It's all happening soon.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by Gordon

It would be nice to see YVR include some sort of retractable covers from the new holdrooms to the planes for the new pier A gates that should open soon.

New Pier A gates? I didn't know that there were more gates opening over there. Can you please elaborate?

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

It was a 319, but either way a huge upgrade ya. Can't believe given the amount of flying you do that you've never taken a domestic widebody flight, nearly half the frequencies (and over half the seats) to YYZ are widebody. I'm flying back to Toronto on a 789 tomorrow, always a pleasant flight.

That new condor/Thomson livery looks great, as does Xiamen, great catch. Would love to see that Singapore A359 in a different airport too...

Ah, thanks for the correction on the A319 -> B788 vs E190 -> B788.

Yes, I can't recall ever having taken a domestic wide-body. Perhaps as a young kid flying with my Dad to Montreal to visit family, but I don't recall. I did get to sit in the cockpit once for the landing at YUL, which was so ridiculously cool!

Agreed, on the Condor/Thomas Cook livery looking sharp. They chose nice colours with which to play around. Agreed, too, on the Xiamen Airlines livery. And, agreed, once more, on the desire to see Singapore send an A359 our way. They've ordered 67(!) of them, so chances are good someday. The next route Singapore will fly with its A359s is to Johannesburg. That could have been an interesting routing for me when I was working on a project there.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

The next route Singapore will fly with its A359s is to Johannesburg. That could have been an interesting routing for me when I was working on a project there.

My next trip MEL-SIN has just been changed to the 359.... They moved that flight forward two weeks so looking forward to that!

[Johnny Aussie]

YVR has finally updated their June stats (again) in the normal format.

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/traffic-update_june-2016.pdf?la=en

Cargo is up too (although only marginally) despite their cargo-only stats sheet showing a massive decline in June... Figured that must have been an error.

Total YTD is up ~ 782,000
Domestic YTD is up ~ 369,000
International YTD is up ~ 413,000

YTD domestic is now < total international.

[osirisboy]

Aww just shy of breaking 2 million for the month

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

http://vancouversun.com/business/local-b...-income-data-analytics-jobs-to-vancouver

Just another little uptick in the right direction. Story is conflicting though, is it 200 or 50 jobs?

Boeing already has a software development center in Richmond which is perhaps few hundred people, so likely the 50 is in addition to that. Good new in any case.